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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Phluck]
    #1277461 - 02/04/03 10:40 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

That's a personal attack.

I'm telling!  :tongue:


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InvisibleSpiffy
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Phluck]
    #1277586 - 02/04/03 11:27 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

wait...I'm confused...you are replying to me but saying that I am stupid. Did you mean to do that. If so, why...all I've asked is that we be kind to one another.


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OfflineAcursedRedDragon
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Fred Garvin]
    #1277808 - 02/04/03 12:49 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

agreed.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1277987 - 02/04/03 01:30 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I'm pretty sure that wasn't directed at you.

It was just a less than articulate rebuttal to Fred & I.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #1278072 - 02/04/03 01:52 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

If Iraq has the weapons the Bush administratrion claims Then someone needs to do something about it. For eight years the Clinton Admistration was satisfied to remain lax about it. Tha's why we're having to be all hardassed about it now. It has nothing to do with the race of any world leader.

Mandella's attempt to make it a racial issue is something I would expect from someone like Jesse Jackson, or Al Sharpton. It seems non-American Africans have learned some tricks from their American cousins.


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InvisibleSpiffy
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1279135 - 02/04/03 06:14 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

you see, the thing is that I don't really think Mandela believes its a race thing. I think he felt it necessary to play that card in order to get people to hear what he is saying...the focus of the article is his views on the way the united states is handling this issue...the comment about race was a side remark. Also, I don't think ANYONE is saying that Saddam Houssien should stay in power, but that we should attempt to reach a diplomatic solution instead of just jumping into a war. Almost every country in the world is saying they will support a war with Iraq IF the UN supports it. The problem is that Bush is too arrogant and impatient to wait for that....and he might just go to war without UN consent...that would be BAD!!!!


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Fred Garvin]
    #1279195 - 02/04/03 06:32 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

where did you go?


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1279440 - 02/04/03 07:33 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"Almost every country in the world is saying they will support a war with Iraq IF the UN supports it."

What?

They don't support it because none of the other countries support it, but they would support it if the others did, which they would, but they're waiting for the others to do it first?


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Offlinepattern
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1279676 - 02/04/03 09:00 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

  They don't support it because none of the other countries support it, but they would support it if the others did, which they would, but they're waiting for the others to do it first?




In other words, the world doesnt support it.  Thats their way of saying it diplomatically. 

Why does the US expect the citizens of other countries to die for US ideals?  :confused: 


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OfflineBladeLSD
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1279713 - 02/04/03 09:12 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

First off, I'd like to say Mandela isa great man blah, blah, blah. But he's way out of line here.

>''One power with a president who has no foresight and cannot think properly, is now wanting to plunge the world into a holocaust,''

These are harsh words, but above all they are un - true.  If the UN doesnt want in it will be the US (possibly UK) against Iraq thats it, Do you have a better solution Mr Mandela like giving the Iraqi's another 12 yrs of inspection free time to produce more weapon, and employ more coercive tactics.  I'm sure the U.S. would be happy to back down if the Iraqi's disarmed in a manner in which your country did, with full documentations, and the govt aiding the inspectors to verify the documentation

>Mandela also criticized Iraq for not cooperating fully with the weapons inspectors and said South Africa would support any action against Iraq that was supported by the United Nations.

I would ask Mr. Mandela if he has read Resolution 1441

>''Why is the United States behaving so arrogantly?'' he asked. ''All that (Bush) wants is Iraqi oil,'' he said.

I dont see the US as acting arrogantly.  Lets be practical about this, the US isnt going to wage war for oil,  but if war is neccessary, eventual we will be rebuilding Iraq(like we do every other country we blow apary).  When this occurs we will probably rebuild it with their oil (w/ money going to us corp), instead of tax payer funds.  That being said France, and Russia have very big oil deals with Iraq, and a war would not help them (they are on the security council)

>''Is it because the secretary-general of the United Nations is now a black man? They never did that when secretary-generals were white,'' he said.

To accuse Bush of being a racist is absurd, is he off his Rocker.  I'd like to be on the recieving end of the support we give to south africa, and other poor african countries ala George Bush.  Billions.

>''He is the foreign minister of the United States. He is no longer prime minister of Britain,''

Is this statement even relevant, last I heard the Brits were growing weary, but anyways that title belongs to Jack Straw.

Sure the man did alot in his day, but I think he may have been tripping :confused:.  These statements are just crazy, and Mandela is a real whack job. I'd like to kick that pinko-commi down the stairs. 

-Mandella's attempt to make it a racial issue is something I would expect from someone like Jesse Jackson, or Al Sharpton. It seems non-American Africans have learned some tricks from their American cousins.
  Good call :grin: :shocked: :laugh:


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Edited by BladeLSD (02/04/03 09:17 PM)


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1279764 - 02/04/03 09:32 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Damn BladeLSD, I guess your attitude is to be expected of a blindly patriotic american.
What he said had more relevence than anything Bush has said resently.
The problem here is that you just look at his words and twist them instead of actually looking at the motivation and meaning of what was said.
You will realise that as spiffy said, he only used the race-card to make them listen.
with regards to Bush having no foresight and not being able to think properly is spot on.
The larger percentage of ppl think Bush is a mad-man, madder than Robert mugabe for one.


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OfflineBladeLSD
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #1280684 - 02/05/03 07:39 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I havnt twisted Mandela's words in the slightest I just interpret them as the Poppycock they really are, I think you need to get from under Mandela's desk, and realise as Baby Hitler so elquently spoke "his shit stinks", when you make statements have some facts to back them up.

Believe me I am far from completly behind Bush & his administration, I unlike you live in america, and believe it or not I believe it is a threat. This isnt a New Iraqi problem it is an old problem we have failed to deal with. It needs to be dealt with. I dont know about your country, but we have been attacked, and to think Sadaam isnt a threat is to be delirious. Mr Mandela needs to get his facts straight, and you have no answer to these facts, except I'm a patriotic american, I guess I am, but that doesnt stop me from seeking out the truth, and the truth is Iraq is a threat, and a threat that has ties to terrorism. I dont think war is the best solution, but it may be the only solution. How are Iraqi people supposed to protest a dictator, with their lives?, I think they are a little tired of being killed by Saddam if we go to war, Iraq wont have a leg to stand on.
It seems that you are following along the same lines as the person who slandered mandela, you just stated how you feel with no facts to back it up, Your guessing I just listen to what "they" say. This is untrue, I seek out the facts, and these are facts. If he played the race card just to get people to listen, well this is hardly the behavior I expect from such a respected leader, and a Nobel Prize winner, this statement for me hit Mandela's credibility like a sock full pennies. The other statements are just a reflection of his lack of foresight. Bush's popularity in the foreign world is insignificant to me, he has my support, and the support of most americans. I think your missing the real madman here the one who kills his own people, and use's thier small amount of resources to his advantage. If Johanusberg(sorry for spelling I know its not right) had been hit with suicide planes Mandela would change his tune.
The fact is America doesnt expect anyone to die for our Ideals, there are plenty of Patriotic Americans who have, and will continue to die for U.S. Ideals. If Mandela wanted to criticize the US he shouldnt have done it after drinking so much alcohol, his statments are laughable. Some of you have international policy a bit screwed up. I dont think you understand the powerlessness of the UN when working together it is quite effective, but for the most part it is just another league of nations where every country does what they can. If we dont have support, how many other countries are willing to die for Saddam...not many. If we have to go at it alone we will, but the opposition is purely diplomatic, and no country is dumb enough to take arms along side the deserting Iraqi army, when the time comes.


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We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


Edited by BladeLSD (02/05/03 08:53 AM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: pattern]
    #1281054 - 02/05/03 10:02 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

In other words, the world doesnt support it. Thats their way of saying it diplomatically.

Why does the US expect the citizens of other countries to die for US ideals?




We don't. We know what cowards they are, and just want them to stay out of our way.

Why are you content to alow Iraqi citizens to die for Saddam's Ideals?

Why are you content to allow American's to die for the ideals of muslim extremists?

What good are you ?


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Offlinepattern
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1281245 - 02/05/03 10:54 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

>We don't. We know what cowards they are,
>and just want them to stay out of our way.

Hmm I disagree.  The US has been trying to rally military support from the world for a long time now. 

>Why are you content to alow Iraqi citizens to die for Saddam's Ideals?

I would not be content about that, were it true.  Iraqis are not dying from Saddam's Ideals.  The liberation card doesnt play well here.

> Why are you content to allow American's to die for the ideals of muslim
> extremists?

I'm not content about that either.  You must be talking about Al Queda, because Iraqis aren't attacking Americans.  They will retaliate once you attack them, thats why I'm against the war.  War is bad for American citizens. 

> What good are you ?

I'm not good at launching bombs at civilians.  I would get fired from that job pretty quick.
I like the idea of peace though.  If that makes me worthless, so be it! :tongue: 


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Spiffy]
    #1281262 - 02/05/03 11:00 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Not you, Spiffy, sorry. The people who are attacking Mandala.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1281280 - 02/05/03 11:02 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

It should be pointed out that Iraq has NEVER given anyone a reason to believe that they might launch any sort of unprovoked attack on the United States.


--------------------
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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: pattern]
    #1281310 - 02/05/03 11:12 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

>Hmm I disagree. The US has been trying to rally military support from the world for a long time now.

It doesn't really matter if they show up or not. Their military contributions have been all but insignificant in the last few decades. It's just a token of support.

> Iraqis are not dying from Saddam's Ideals. The liberation card doesnt play well here.

I believe they are.


>You must be talking about Al Queda, because Iraqis aren't attacking Americans.

There's a good chance that they are working together. Bush seems to have reason to believe it, but that's not enough yet for me to believe it.

I don't disagree with anything Bush has done yet. If he were to attack tonight, he'd have a hard time convincing me, most of America, and the rest of the world that it was the right thing to do.


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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1281372 - 02/05/03 11:31 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Bush must be being told alot of disturbing things about Iraq, Saddam, and terrorism, to be acting this way.  Probably alot of this is coming from Rumsfeld and Bush Sr. 

Alot of people would see Bush's side were he to reveal this information, some of which Powell recently revealed.

Keeping this information secretive means that only a few people are using it, and making narrow decisions.  There seems to be a severly limited number of views at the top of the US government.  I think Bush would benefit alot if he diversified his counsell.  I think you should apply, Hitler  :smile: 


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: pattern]
    #1281431 - 02/05/03 11:50 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I'd like to know what he knows too, but not if it means risking even more lives.


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OfflineBladeLSD
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Re: Nelson Mandela Speaks out on US war with Iraq [Re: Phluck]
    #1287501 - 02/07/03 06:28 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Ohh really Phluch, Saddama son has threathened the US, and threathened it with Biological warfare. Why do you just want to let it fester? Where were you when Clinton was in Kosovo w/o UN approving, blowing up aspirin factories.


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