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OfflineOn_the_Down-Low
Polyfil-ophile-Say it 3 timesfast.

Registered: 10/15/02
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Fruiting on agar
    #1287655 - 02/07/03 07:10 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

The armadillo wanted to know about small mushrooms that grow on agar. He had some 1/2 pint jars that he forgot about for approx 60 days. 1 or 2 of the jars now have small shrooms growing directly from the PDYagar. The shrooms are less then an 1/8 of an inch in diameter, and 2-3 inches tall. About like a big wooden kitchen match. The caps haven't expanded yet. Are there any reason(s) or advantages to using this specific mycelia or shroom tissue??


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: On_the_Down-Low]
    #1287664 - 02/07/03 07:12 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

shows willingness to fruit. Stamets chooses isolates which fruit in vitro, he prefers them.


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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OfflinestonErollEr1
The Psilocybinsolution
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Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: Raadt]
    #1287951 - 02/07/03 08:48 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Yes..I do to.
Good fruiting properties...clone and knock up some birdseed with it to check its potential.

peace..


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OfflineOn_the_Down-Low
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Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: Raadt]
    #1289358 - 02/07/03 05:51 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

'Dillo boi said the shroom came from a piece of mycelia climbing the side of the 1/2 pint jar. He said the mycelia looked like a plant root!! Is that rhyzomorphic???? :shocked: 

>>>oh yeah- should he take the 'rooty' strand of mycelia, or use the tissue from the tiny shroom?
Then what- into a grain jar, or possibly put 1/2 of it back on agar?? Any advantage to going back to agar with it?


Edited by On_the_Down-Low (02/07/03 05:54 PM)


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OfflineBladeLSD
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Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: On_the_Down-Low]
    #1290080 - 02/08/03 12:18 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

If you take a piece of the mycellium, and not the shrooom than you wont have an isolate. You could do either


--------------------
We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: Raadt]
    #1294655 - 02/09/03 09:33 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Really? Where does Stamets suggest that?


--------------------


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1294679 - 02/09/03 09:44 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I think it is in GGMM in the section about evaluating mushrooms strains.
Fruitings on agar are good sign that the culture is vigorous.


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Invisibletripndicular
My Minds Eye IsRhizomorphic

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Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: On_the_Down-Low]
    #1295340 - 02/10/03 06:04 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)



Check these out ! Was frogotten petris in cabinet , only second strain selection to , have some in casing right now and there are more primordia than I can count . I agree with Stametes .........."Prooves willingness to grow !"


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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OfflineOn_the_Down-Low
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Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: tripndicular]
    #1295923 - 02/10/03 09:44 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

So we all agree that it's a good thing, so what next?? Use the mycelia, and tranfer it to grain and grow it out?? Or should he use a tissue culture on agar?? Is there any advantage to 'reisolating' the shroom tissue??


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: On_the_Down-Low]
    #1296564 - 02/10/03 01:41 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

because mycellium fruits on agar does not mean it's an isolated strain. If you want the strain isolated you need to continue to isolate good growth until there is no sectoring. From there you can use them for liquid inocculation or standard wedge to grain innoculation.


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1296565 - 02/10/03 01:42 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I will find you a page number from the book when I get home. I suppose I should be more thorough with my explanations. It is in there though, as was noted by zeronio.


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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Invisibletripndicular
My Minds Eye IsRhizomorphic

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 2,791
Loc: Bowels of HELL
Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: On_the_Down-Low]
    #1298742 - 02/11/03 06:58 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

RAADT , said it accurately , isolation is preformed until sectoring stops . In case of the cultures in my post , that "strain" I stopped with is very likely to be a productive one . Even if given "bare minimum" to survive at all . Page 36 of TMC explains the different "characteristics" cultivators seek in their cultures .

And yes , if a non sectoring (all rhizomorphic is best ) strain , with no contams , has been selected ...then Yes you can inoc grain with it , continue with cultures by saving it as a "stock culture" , for future uses .


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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OfflineBladeLSD
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Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: tripndicular]
    #1298769 - 02/11/03 07:15 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Saying all Rhizomorphic is best is a very subjective statement.


--------------------
We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


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OfflineRaadt
nicht

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Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1298786 - 02/11/03 07:23 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Page 108 - chapter 13 - Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms by Paul Stamets

The Event of Volunteer Primordia on Nutrified Agar Media


My space is fucked up, so I am only typing up the paragraph.


The cultivator plays an active role in developing strains by physically selecting those that look "good." Integral to the success of the mushroom life cycle is the mycelial path leading to primordia formation. To this end, the mushroom and the cultivator share common interests. The occurrence of primordia not only is a welcome affrimation of the strain's identity but is also indicative of it's readiness to fruit. Hence, I tend to favor strains that voluntarily form primordia.



And there we have it. Stamets preference toward primordia forming isolates.


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


Edited by Raadt (02/11/03 09:53 AM)


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Invisibletripndicular
My Minds Eye IsRhizomorphic

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 2,791
Loc: Bowels of HELL
Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1298903 - 02/11/03 08:10 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Rhizomorhic mycelia run faster , form more primordia and hence yeild more ......so IMHO for my needs ...........pure rhizo are best choice(depends on species , I think...?) . But if you notice in the culture in my pic , there is some cottony growth . But at that stage in the game , showed willingness to meet my criteria . So went on with grain inoc , waiting for final results now , have some just cased , and some in worm castings .
Was also damn supprised and proud this event took place in a cabinet I know , so thoguht images would be nice for the topic . Only saw it in books , till then .


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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OfflineOn_the_Down-Low
Polyfil-ophile-Say it 3 timesfast.

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 401
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: tripndicular]
    #1301525 - 02/12/03 05:36 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

So what are the pros and cons of using the mycelia that produced the friut, vervus using the fruit?
For the noobs: what is sectoring?  :crazy: 


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Invisibletripndicular
My Minds Eye IsRhizomorphic

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 2,791
Loc: Bowels of HELL
Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: On_the_Down-Low]
    #1301563 - 02/12/03 05:57 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

The pros of using are ......
Hopefully the strain will maintain its viability (production) in the transfer , thus meaning it will be a good producer of mushies once in a substrate .
You can also use the fruit the agar produced , but that is cloning tecniques . The fruit it self is the strain also , once you grow it out on agar .
Sectoring ...when a mycelium grows from a single inoculation site and several divergent types appear , it is said to be "sectoring" . So basically you will see two primary types of mycelium growth
1 rhizomorphic- cord like or strand like hyphae known to be most productive type
2 tomentose- (cottony , fluffy ) , not as productive
If you are interested in agar culture teks , you should invest in TMC , and read up all you can on the topic .
Good L;uck
Hope I cleared a few things up for you .


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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OfflineOn_the_Down-Low
Polyfil-ophile-Say it 3 timesfast.

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 401
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: tripndicular]
    #1304534 - 02/13/03 05:57 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Thanx for the info. I keep meaning to get a copy of Stamet's book(s). One of these days.... I'll just have to keep it on the list.
Soemtimes the two way exchange here is invaluable.


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Invisibletripndicular
My Minds Eye IsRhizomorphic

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 2,791
Loc: Bowels of HELL
Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: On_the_Down-Low]
    #1304657 - 02/13/03 06:47 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

So is owning that fine piece of literature , is way worth the money . Would'nt leave home with out it ....so to say ! :grin: 


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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InvisibleZen Peddler
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
Re: Fruiting on agar [Re: tripndicular]
    #1308408 - 02/14/03 04:14 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I dont agree with Stamets on many points. Although ofcourse invitro pinning is generally a good sign.
Mycelia reacts to its substrate in many ways, so jsut because an isolate may seem tomentose on agar, does not mean that it will not develop strong rhizomorphes when consumming a different substrate medium or that it will not fruit abundantly.
As ive posted before, cubensis is an easy mushroom we can use to prove this point. If you let all your plates - tomentose or rhizomorphic fully colonise and develop primordia you will find that often tomentose mycelia develops rhizomorphes right before fruiting and performs just as well.
I do tend toward rhizomorphic mycelia, but each species is different and speed and invitro pinning are just as good at indicating how the substrain will perform.
Someone recentally posted some info on asian cultivators doing away with isolation and using strain competition to produce bigger yields.


--------------------


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