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The shadow
    #12573550 -

I was watching this,
and it really interested me, more like it sent shivers down my spine like a good song does. So i looked up some stuff on the shadow, Carl Jung, and took a personality test.  I'm intj type Introverted intuitive Thinking Judging.  Could someone elaborate on the shadow and the difference and significance of ego, anmia, persona, and the unconcious.

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Re: The shadow [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #12573751 -

Okay, please take into consideration that I've only take 1 year of psychology so far, and we haven't even touched Carl Jung that much, and I haven't heard some of these terms, I'm simply going to give you my best interpretation.

The External world is concrete, and is interpreted by our thinking depending on our mind, which results in feelings and thoughts, depending on your persona, which is your basic mentality/values that you project and are fully aware of.

The ego, of course, is your idea that you a separate from other things, when you're on psychedelics, you may merge with the environment around you/realize that you're composed of nothing but atoms, just like everything around you, this is ego death.

The anima is the more deep seeded aspects of your personality that factor into what you believe but you aren't ever really conscious of them, it's kinda' like it just seems to be common sense.

Finally, your unconscious is the root of your deepest, most instinctual feelings and can host all types of aspects of your personality that you never personally let out, but you may assume that others do allow these aspects to come out, and base your world view on these underlying ideas that are built into you. It is possible to change your unconscious, but this is only possible by becoming conscious of it, which is achieved through expanded consciousness.

Excellent find, I think I may be a Jungian psychologist and never even knew it!


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:peace::heartpump::shineon:

Edited by Fry (05/16/10 03:18 PM)

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Re: The shadow [Re: Fry]
    #12574891 -

Jung believed that everyone can understand what the Shadow is but that very few understand the Anima.

A basic conceptualization of the shadow is: what don't you want to see?
What is in your life that you wish you could be rid of?
What do you dislike about the world? About other humans?

The answers are what could be considered your individual shadow aspects.

The Shadow is considered an aspect of the unconscious. And as a result, it is first experienced consciously outside of one's individual make-up. The more conscious of these shadow projections you become, the more you will see these characteristics as a part of yourself.

Keep in mind that Jung worked with the collective unconscious. The unconscious of us as a collective. The idea being two fold. 1) Everyone within the collective shares the shadow -- some people will represent the shadow, others the projectors of the shadow. And 2) If everything in the unconscious become conscious, we would consciously recognize ourselves in everything. The big 2 for collective unconsciousness are in the Anima (the female aspect of man) and the Shadow (that which man wants to be rid of, but cannot as it is really a part of them).


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Edited by Kickle (05/16/10 06:58 PM)

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Re: The shadow [Re: Fry]
    #12574988 -

Fry said:
....and we haven't even touched Carl Jung that much...



Sorry.


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Re: The shadow [Re: auxiliary]
    #12575015 -
Log in to view attachment

Edit: may as well include some of his writings...


My University education of Mr. Jung was, "He's a really interesting character that we won't have time to get into any detail on..."

So I picked up some books and started reading what the man had to say himself.
I think this is the best system anyways.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Edited by Kickle (05/16/10 07:13 PM)

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Re: The shadow [Re: Kickle]
    #12575817 -

^ they already explained it, but frankly i'm left a little confused by them. so here is my understanding of the shadow.

the shadow, according to Jung, is an archetype. archetypes make up the collective unconscious, but i'm not going to try to explain those right now. the shadow represents the aspects of ourselves that we deny and repress. we deny and repress these things un/subconsciously, so we are not expressly aware of them. the shadow contains the parts of ourselves that we despise so much that when we see that trait in someone else, we despise them for it.

with that in mind, you could write down a list of traits that you despise in other people and wind up with a list of things you despise about yourself at some level. these things are often verifiable by those who know you best, but not always. for example, narcissism is something i find to be a big turn off. once i realized that this is because of my own narcissism, i now make an effort to counteract that, and now its not as big of a problem in other people for me.

hope that makes sense.

this site is a little simplistic, but it helped me gain a bit of understanding about archetypes, as well as jung in general.
http://www.carl-jung.net/archetypes.html


this one seems to explain the shadow fairly well.
http://www.shadowdance.com/shadow/theshadow.html


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My words, too, are only an echo; but there is no reason why I should not repeat what I have heard.                    :zombie5:
-Socrates                                                                Let the rabbits wear glasses!
:gd_icon::trippycow::gd_icon:

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Re: The shadow [Re: zombi]
    #12576431 -

I'd suggest reading Jung's writings themselves rather than interpretations. IMO it's like reading religious texts... lots of metaphors, lots of abstraction into characters. Do you want an individual's interpretation or do you want to read the metaphors yourself? 

Point being, Jung wrote of the collective unconscious. He believed he was describing/labeling something that exists in the unconscious of us all. If this is true, his writings should speak directly to some part of you.But in doing so, you will have an individual manifestation of it. Your particular reactions to it will shape what you get out of it. IMO this is preferred to getting anothers reactions.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: The shadow [Re: Kickle]
    #12576518 -

agreed. you should read it for yourself, but psychological types isn't exactly a quick read nor is it something someone who just heard about jung through a tool song is likely to read.

"the undiscovered self" by jung on the other hand is a pretty quick read and offers some fascinating insights. no link though. go get the book.:grin:


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My words, too, are only an echo; but there is no reason why I should not repeat what I have heard.                    :zombie5:
-Socrates                                                                Let the rabbits wear glasses!
:gd_icon::trippycow::gd_icon:

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Re: The shadow [Re: zombi]
    #12576647 -

one time I tried to make my shadow video tape me fucking my anima


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Jesus loves you.

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Re: The shadow [Re: zombi]
    #12576652 -

I don't know whether or not the OP will be interested in the text. But anyone who wants to know more about their personality type, E.g, "I'm intj type Introverted intuitive Thinking Judging." Should read it if they are really interested in what those Jungian typologies mean. The descriptions that are given on every website I have come across are not what I get from reading Jung's descriptions. Surface gloss versus piercing :tongue:


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: The shadow [Re: zombi]
    #12576865 -

The shadow seems to be negative but by Jung's description is actually neutral.  Ive had introspective trips before that i believe have scratched through the layers of who i am and into the shadow.  I'm uncertain if i experienced  an ego death, due to the many interpretations of what exactly one is.  I had an ego death in the sense that my normal view of my self was absent.

  My experience deep inside my mind 4gs mushrooms:  an unbiased, logical, and self-understanding sub category of my being, revealed to me things undetectable in my normal sober state.  This logical, all understanding part of my being saw me in my entirety, super analytical of the things I've done and why.  The good, the bad, that which deep down scares me, that which i long for, and everything in between.


  This logical part told these things to my emotional side which weighed the morality.  Like two parts of my being having a conversation. A part of my true nature was revealed to me that i never acknowledged existed or fully understood.  Deep understanding of things i had unwittingly done  like lashing out on a friend or family member over something frivolous.  I could see it was my own unhappiness and need for change that made me act the way i did.

  The funny thing about mushrooms for me is, sometimes I'll have a deeply introspective, what some would consider a bad or difficult trip.  Other times I'll just see colors and shit melting.

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Re: The shadow [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #12576889 -

Carl Jung personality test  Short test, see what type you are.  Im intj Introverted intuitive Thinking Judging

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Re: The shadow [Re: zombi]
    #12576998 -

zombi said:
agreed. you should read it for yourself, but psychological types isn't exactly a quick read nor is it something someone who just heard about jung through a tool song is likely to read.


Just because i first heard of jung and the shadow in a tool song doesn't mean I'm not likely to do extensive reading.  I enjoy reading random things, and  i often deeply research random people and ideas Ive discovered from unlikely sources if my interest is sparked.  I actually have done some reading on Jung before i first posted, i play naive to get different opinions on the subject.

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