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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion?
    #12391705 -

im specifically referring to western religion, judeo-christian belief and morality. btw.

I believe it is morally correct for athiests to sway and argue the existence of god to religious people.

It is my belief that what religion is doing is wrong, that anyone who is following it is being taught lies by their superiors, that the "truth" contained within texts of religion are actually harbingers of war, death, violence, corruption, etc.

I believe that you are wasting your life by believing in religion, the idea that you must save your body/soul/mind for god. The ideal is to deny oneself while you are on earth, in the name of a promise for the wine and gold in heaven. Yet life is about experiencing and LIVING, therefor it would logically make it a waste of life to believe in religion, they are the living dead.

You are quite literally saving someones life when you are try to persuade them to not believe in jesus/god/etc.


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka

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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: AntiEverything]
    #12391718 -

If it floats your boat, go for it.


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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: AntiEverything]
    #12391734 -

That makes you like them. How are you missing this? Mind your own fucking business.


--------------------
R.I.P Rod Beck

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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: robbyberto]
    #12391757 -

Makes me like them? you make a valid point, it doesn't matter if I'm using the same tacticts, just so long as I'm not spreading lies, hate, violence, war, corruption, etc.

you are avoiding the issue at hand though, robbyberto, when you allow someone to believe in something such as christian religion, you are essentially assigning them to a slow and painful death, a life wasted.


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka

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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: AntiEverything]
    #12391780 -

robbyberto said:
That makes you like them. How are you missing this? Mind your own fucking business.

Very true, and since so many people here like to throw around statistics... People who are religious live longer than those who do not.
AntiEverything said:
Makes me like them? you make a valid point, it doesn't matter if I'm using the same tacticts, just so long as I'm not spreading lies, hate, violence, war, corruption, etc.

you are avoiding the issue at hand though, robbyberto, when you allow someone to believe in something such as christian religion, you are essentially assigning them to a slow and painful death, a life wasted.

Allowing them? This is the very idea behind drug prohibition isn't it? Allowing them to do drugs will be letting them kill them selves slowly.


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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: robbyberto]
    #12391803 -

robbyberto said:
That makes you like them. How are you missing this? Mind your own fucking business.


so lets say Jimmy has a belief in an imaginary friend "super hippie man", and it causes him to create a following of other kids that also believe in "super hippie man", and then he starts to kill and murder people who do not believe in "super hippie man", should we just "mind our own fucking business" and let jimmy go around killing people and allowing his cult to get larger and larger until it encompasses a huge portion of the western world, where he indoctrinates people into his religion using their ignorance as a tool for coercion?


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka

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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: AntiEverything]
    #12391817 -

AntiEverything said:
robbyberto said:
That makes you like them. How are you missing this? Mind your own fucking business.


so lets say Jimmy has a belief in an imaginary friend "super hippie man", and it causes him to create a following of other kids that also believe in "super hippie man", and then he starts to kill and murder people who do not believe in "super hippie man", should we just "mind our own fucking business" and let jimmy go around killing people and allowing his cult to get larger and larger until it encompasses a huge portion of the western world, where he indoctrinates people into his religion using their ignorance as a tool for coercion?

So are the pot heads going to get up and do some thing about hippie the super man :wink: I wonder if super hippy man might have some god damn cheez its :pacman:


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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: Maurer]
    #12391827 -

Maurer said:
robbyberto said:
That makes you like them. How are you missing this? Mind your own fucking business.

Very true, and since so many people here like to throw around statistics... People who are religious live longer than those who do not.
AntiEverything said:
Makes me like them? you make a valid point, it doesn't matter if I'm using the same tacticts, just so long as I'm not spreading lies, hate, violence, war, corruption, etc.

you are avoiding the issue at hand though, robbyberto, when you allow someone to believe in something such as christian religion, you are essentially assigning them to a slow and painful death, a life wasted.

Allowing them? This is the very idea behind drug prohibition isn't it? Allowing them to do drugs will be letting them kill them selves slowly.



im not saying you should jail people for believing in christianity (rofl). again you are avoiding the point at hand, i am saying that it is morally correct to persuade them otherwise.

just as its morally correct for people to persuade others not to abuse drugs.

also thats a huge strawman argument. we are not talking about drugs here, we are talking about modern western religion, they are completely different issues.


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka

Edited by AntiEverything (04/14/10 12:35 PM)

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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: AntiEverything]
    #12391844 -

Evangelism is a waste of time and energy. Evangelical atheists are just as full of themselves as any other.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: AntiEverything]
    #12391863 -

Arguing with religious people is like arguing with

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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: noticeofeviction]
    #12391871 -

Atheism is a belief system.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: AntiEverything]
    #12391874 -

You're perfectly allowed to discuss and debate the logical issues.

But to actively try to persuade/pressure someone to change their belief is a violation of their individual liberty.

They're entitles to believe whatever the hell they choose to,erroneous as it is.

As for the religion=killing point,that's a bit of a gross generisation!Yes,religion has caused some (most...) of the mass slaughters of our species,but the ridiculously vast majority of religious people are just...people,trying to live from one day to the next like everyone else.
They're allowed to believe what they like. :shrug:


--------------------
Over one's mind and over one's body the individual is sovereign.
John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
(1806 - 1873)
My UPDATED UK supplies thread
My first trip report-Amsterdam wanderings
Stonesun's sclerotia infodump
Proudly discovered Highly Sensitive Person ~2009
To all you good gents, I say :hatsoff:

Edited by Ego Questio (04/14/10 12:43 PM)

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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #12391879 -

Is that not evangelical of you to imply such a hefty accusation ?

Making you the most full of himself.

It is not a strike on someones individual liberty by trying to persuade someone to do something. I am not saying go door to door and hand out flyers, I am saying that it is morally right to argue the point, many christians think it is wrong of me to do so (that is the work of the devil), i am contesting this.

You are actually granting 'the individual' personal agency over themselves by persuading them against religion, otherwise god owns their body. Thusly increasing their individual liberty.


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka

Edited by AntiEverything (04/14/10 12:46 PM)

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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #12391924 -

OneMoreRobot3021 said:
Atheism is a belief system.


it is a part of your belief system that evangelicalism is backwards, faulty and causes one to be "full of himself". Evengelicalism is trying to persuade another person about his/her belief system.

You bite back into your own link...


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka

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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: robbyberto] * 1
    #12391934 -

robbyberto said:
That makes you like them.


Only if you consider science and technology a religion.

People turn to religion for answers that can be answered correctly by science and technology. This is what they were taught to do by their parents, as their parents were taught before them. The religion gives them an answer for their question, usually something like "Because God Willed it So!" and they believe because that's what our stupid brains are programmed to do - accept what we are told in blind faith. Thus, they in turn give money to the religion thinking it has helped them, when all it did was lie to them in order to receive that money.

If it ended there, then it wouldn't be so bad if religion existed... Religion would simply be grifting... however...

Now, some other joe blow sees the income from answering these questions and decides that "God" or w/e "Gods" they believe in spoke to him and gave him divine knowledge that no other human possesses or w/e. He's now saying how the other religion is wrong, and that you should come to him for your answers. The other religion takes offense, and declares this new joe blow's religion blasphemy. Eventually, patrons take sides and start fighting amongst themselves over which religion is better. This eventually leads to crusades and terrorist activities.

Now, it'd be nice if they'd just all kill each other, but unfortunately that's not going to happen. It's also cruel if you think like I do and believe some of these religious dolts can still be "saved" and lead a productive life.

People need to stop going to church, and start donating to organizations that are actually trying to solve the real problems we have as a society.

If you DON'T try to convince religious people to abandon their religion then you are saying to yourself that terrorists have a point and we should let them be.

By passing a person on the street on their way to church without saying anything you are saying to yourself "There goes that person, to the hall of lies, where instead of being used to fund research on cancer, their donation money will be used to stifle intelligent thought, spread stagnant lies, and convert non-believers.

Religion is the #1 greatest threat to humanity.


--------------------
Winner of 2 of TacoHerder's 2 cultivation contests!
Most recent contest posts:
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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: noticeofeviction]
    #12391942 -

noticeofeviction said:
Arguing with religious people is like arguing with


Haha this is great. Who cares what people believe in? People waste there lives in so many ways and god isn't the biggest problem or even close.


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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: NoOneKnowsHowToAct]
    #12391946 -

Question: Is there a belief system that says I don't believe we can know whether God exists?

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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: NoOneKnowsHowToAct]
    #12391956 -

NoOneKnowsHowToAct said:
robbyberto said:
That makes you like them.


Only if you consider science and technology a religion.

People turn to religion for answers that can be answered correctly by science and technology. This is what they were taught to do by their parents, as their parents were taught before them. The religion gives them an answer for their question, usually something like "Because God Willed it So!" and they believe because that's what our stupid brains are programmed to do - accept what we are told in blind faith. Thus, they in turn give money to the religion thinking it has helped them, when all it did was lie to them in order to receive that money.

If it ended there, then it wouldn't be so bad if religion existed... Religion would simply be grifting... however...

Now, some other joe blow sees the income from answering these questions and decides that "God" or w/e "Gods" they believe in spoke to him and gave him divine knowledge that no other human possesses or w/e. He's now saying how the other religion is wrong, and that you should come to him for your answers. The other religion takes offense, and declares this new joe blow's religion blasphemy. Eventually, patrons take sides and start fighting amongst themselves over which religion is better. This eventually leads to crusades and terrorist activities.

Now, it'd be nice if they'd just all kill each other, but unfortunately that's not going to happen. It's also cruel if you think like I do and believe some of these religious dolts can still be "saved" and lead a productive life.

People need to stop going to church, and start donating to organizations that are actually trying to solve the real problems we have as a society.

If you DON'T try to convince religious people to abandon their religion then you are saying to yourself that terrorists have a point and we should let them be.

By passing a person on the street on their way to church without saying anything you are saying to yourself "There goes that person, to the hall of lies, where instead of being used to fund research on cancer, their donation money will be used to stifle intelligent thought, spread stagnant lies, and convert non-believers.

Religion is the #1 greatest threat to humanity.


im glad im not the only blasphamous devil monger that has been brushing up on his nietzche lately. lol


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka

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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: noticeofeviction]
    #12391967 -

noticeofeviction said:
Question: Is there a belief system that says I don't believe we can know whether God exists?


Yes... I subscribe to this. I am not an atheist, nor am I agnostic. I simply believe what science and technology has proven to be true. As to everything else the answer is "I don't know" and that's how it should be since that's the correct answer.


--------------------
Winner of 2 of TacoHerder's 2 cultivation contests!
Most recent contest posts:
inoculation
Ready for spawning
Substrate done colonizing
Pins
Pins #2
First flush

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Re: Morally correct to persuade people to not believe in religion? [Re: noticeofeviction]
    #12391968 -

noticeofeviction said:
Question: Is there a belief system that says I don't believe we can know whether God exists?


yes, and that is all fine and dandy. Called Agnosticism, or Theism.

Theism is not the problem.

Judeo-Christian belief is the problem.


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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