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kosmic_charlie
Truckin' in style
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: MOTH]
#3338675 - 11/09/04 06:49 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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With Bush in office for another four years I think we can expect to see growing conservatism on the issue of abortion. Wait until the Supreme Court gets a Republican facelift and then I wouldn't be surprised if Roe vs. Wade got overturned completely. Then all hell will break loose. This is getting sad.
-------------------- Goin' where the water tastes like wine.
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d33p
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: Le_Canard]
#3338697 - 11/09/04 06:53 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ToiletDuk said: You presume much. While I understand that Pharmacists require considerable professional accreditation and are the "last line of defense" between doctor and patient, there's a world of difference between denying a patient an addictive or dangerous substance, and denying the patient a prescription on moral grounds. How far should a pharmacist go in deciding what's "right" for the patient? Should the pharmacist go so far as to try to impose his/her moral code on another? This is what bothers me about this whole situation...
Did you even read by summary at all? I was saying that it is not acceptable to do it based on moral grounds which is why i said not handing out pre conceptual birth control is groundless and stupid. But if the pharmacist honestly believes that life begins right when the sperm enters and egg then it is their duty to not administer the drug. It is just a very iffy topic.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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Twirling
Barred Spiral
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: d33p]
#3338712 - 11/09/04 06:56 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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It certainly makes sense to give a pharmacist jurisdiction to deny a patient medication if there is contraindication, or other such problems. In this example, it sounds like the pharmacist is overstepping his bounds in what goes against his conscience. The problem with the law sounds like the wording is off and doesn?t give an indication of the purpose of the law.
What if you had a pharmacist who was against anti-biotics on a moral level? Or perhaps a doctor who feels it is wrong to take anti-depressants because ?it?s a sign of weakness?? It?s a judgment call not based on harm, but personal opinion. You definitely make a good point though, as doctors aren?t always aware of every medication a patient might be taking, and it?s good to have a second back up in case the doctor messes up.
-------------------- The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.
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d33p
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: Twirling]
#3338727 - 11/09/04 07:00 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well have you seen the wording of the law? I haven't so neither of us can comment on it. If the law actually says based on "conscience" then i would agree it is worded improperly.
As i thought i had made it clear the decision should be based on possible harm caused to the patient and not on moral grounds.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: d33p]
#3338739 - 11/09/04 07:04 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
d33p said:
Did you even read by summary at all? I was saying that it is not acceptable to do it based on moral grounds which is why i said not handing out pre conceptual birth control is groundless and stupid. But if the pharmacist honestly believes that life begins right when the sperm enters and egg then it is their duty to not administer the drug. It is just a very iffy topic.
Yes I did. And we ARE talking about pre-conceptual birth control, are we not? And just because a pharmacist believes that a human life begins at conception (a concept which many consider to be a moral one), is not grounds to deny a patient any prescribed medication. But you are right, it is a very "iffy" subject indeed....
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: d33p]
#3338743 - 11/09/04 07:04 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well, yeah if you want to get all technical, our 'lives' started way before we even began growing into an embryo/fetus. ALL of us were once little sperms swimming in a white sea of Souljuice. With this in mind, it makes you wonder if male Anti-abortionists/Pro-Life actually masturbate - thus killing alot of.. "potential people"... Now that's the height of Hypocrisy if I've ever seen one.
"Every time you masturbate, God kills a "
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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blink
eye of horus
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals *DELETED* [Re: twigz]
#3338753 - 11/09/04 07:07 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by blinkidiotReason for deletion: Im sorry
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Le_Canard
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
#3338756 - 11/09/04 07:08 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's pre-child abuse!
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Thor
Anti-Theist OVERLORD
Registered: 08/12/98
Posts: 10,017
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: blink]
#3338769 - 11/09/04 07:13 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
blinkidiot said: sign of the times
Amen
Gotta love how religion preaches tolerance and respect for others beliefs.. Of course no religious leader would say that they force their beliefs on others..
So here we have pharmasists refusing to give pills to people, whats next religious bartenders who refuse to serve alcoholic drinks because of their morality?
Religion is killing our world.
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d33p
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: Le_Canard]
#3338771 - 11/09/04 07:14 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ToiletDuk said: Yes I did. And we ARE talking about pre-conceptual birth control, are we not? And just because a pharmacist believes that a human life begins at conception (a concept which many consider to be a moral one), is not grounds to deny a patient any prescribed medication. But you are right, it is a very "iffy" subject indeed....
Reread my very first post in this thread. How did anyone get the idea i was for pharmacists not filling a script for pre conceptual birth control? The article touched briefly on the morning after pill so i included in my post.
And if human life begins at conception then the administration of a morning after pill is killing a human being so the pharmacist would object.
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kadakuda
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
#3338780 - 11/09/04 07:16 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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this is going in a wierd direction, but i see where yer coming from. but if we keep going further its not just masterbation its ANY orgasmn basically. in a cunt or not. still disposing of sperm. even when a child is wanted there are millions of other loser sperm that die. we're all going to hell
i agree with d33p on it, as i think we all are, just in different wording. but everyones definition of harm and when a sperm/egg is a human is going to differ.
-------------------- The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.
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d33p
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
#3338786 - 11/09/04 07:17 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SkorpivoMusterion said: Well, yeah if you want to get all technical, our 'lives' started way before we even began growing into an embryo/fetus. ALL of us were once little sperms swimming in a white sea of Souljuice. With this in mind, it makes you wonder if male Anti-abortionists/Pro-Life actually masturbate - thus killing alot of.. "potential people"... Now that's the height of Hypocrisy if I've ever seen one.
"Every time you masturbate, God kills a "
A sperm or an egg alone does not contain all the information needed for life to form, however a zygote does.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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Le_Canard
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: d33p]
#3338913 - 11/09/04 08:07 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
d33p said: Wow such ignorance. No one in this thread understands the context nor the purpose of the law allowing pharmacists to refuse to fill prescriptions. Although i disagree with pharmacists not giving out pre-conceptual birth control specifically, thats just groundless and stupid.
*sigh* Okay, here's what I got from that. While you disagree with the pharmacist's decision, you call anyone else who disagrees with this ignorant and stupid. I find that statement rather ambiguous and more than a little insulting to whomever made a post to that effect, to say the least! That's all I have to say about that...
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Hooty
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: Le_Canard]
#3339132 - 11/09/04 09:01 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
And if human life begins at conception then the administration of a morning after pill is killing a human being so the pharmacist would object.
I was under the impression that morning after pills didn't work if conception had already taken place, or is it just that they don't work if the zygote hasn't yet reached the uterus wall?
Anyway I don't see how you could be morally opposed to birth control, which prevents conception. And the amazing thing is that these are probably the same people who are opposed to abortion...
-------------------- Without love in the dream It will never come true
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d33p
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: Le_Canard]
#3347306 - 11/11/04 02:59 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ToiletDuk said:
Quote:
d33p said:
Wow such ignorance. No one in this thread understands the context nor the purpose of the law allowing pharmacists to refuse to fill prescriptions.
Although i disagree with pharmacists not giving out pre-conceptual birth control specifically, thats just groundless and stupid.
*sigh* Okay, here's what I got from that. While you disagree with the pharmacist's decision, you call anyone else who disagrees with this ignorant and stupid. I find that statement rather ambiguous and more than a little insulting to whomever made a post to that effect, to say the least! That's all I have to say about that...
Well where was i insulting? People have a bad habit of applying negative connotations to words which should not have them. Ignorance is not a mean word, it simply means you do not have the proper information on a subject to make an informed decision. And the fact remains that people did not understand the context of the law allowing pharmacists to refuse to fill scripts. I guess what i said is a little pretentious though, i tend to do that sometimes.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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OJK
Stranger
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: d33p]
#3347355 - 11/11/04 03:09 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
d33p said:
Quote:
ToiletDuk said:
Quote:
d33p said:
Wow such ignorance. No one in this thread understands the context nor the purpose of the law allowing pharmacists to refuse to fill prescriptions.
Although i disagree with pharmacists not giving out pre-conceptual birth control specifically, thats just groundless and stupid.
*sigh* Okay, here's what I got from that. While you disagree with the pharmacist's decision, you call anyone else who disagrees with this ignorant and stupid. I find that statement rather ambiguous and more than a little insulting to whomever made a post to that effect, to say the least! That's all I have to say about that...
Well where was i insulting? People have a bad habit of applying negative connotations to words which should not have them. Ignorance is not a mean word, it simply means you do not have the proper information on a subject to make an informed decision. And the fact remains that people did not understand the context of the law allowing pharmacists to refuse to fill scripts. I guess what i said is a little pretentious though, i tend to do that sometimes.
Ok, let's say the pharmacist was a devout catholic who believed that life began with a single sperm and a single egg, even if they had not joined together, so that killing a single sperm or egg was therefor killing an unborn and unconceived child. Would the pharmacist be within his or her remit to refuse to sell condoms or the pill based on this belief?
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Le_Canard
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: d33p]
#3347411 - 11/11/04 03:22 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well most would consider being called ignorant and stupid an insult. Maybe not in your world though. And yes, your posting could be called a wee bit pretentious...
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d33p
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: Le_Canard]
#3347556 - 11/11/04 03:45 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ToiletDuk said: Well most would consider being called ignorant and stupid an insult. Maybe not in your world though. And yes, your posting could be called a wee bit pretentious...
Wtf when did i say stupid? Nice try putting words in my mouth. And if you people can't even grasp semantics properly what is the point of using language when you are going to take it out of context and apply negative connotations to words that don't deserve them. Ignorant is not an insult and if you are to stupid to understand that then it is your problem.
How was that for pretentious?
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d33p
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: OJK]
#3347588 - 11/11/04 03:50 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Odiumjunkie said: Ok, let's say the pharmacist was a devout catholic who believed that life began with a single sperm and a single egg, even if they had not joined together, so that killing a single sperm or egg was therefor killing an unborn and unconceived child. Would the pharmacist be within his or her remit to refuse to sell condoms or the pill based on this belief?
Omgosh please read my replies before posting. I stated that nothing short of a combined egg and sperm could be considered life. No christians think that a single egg or sperm constitutes life, and if they did then they are retarded.
I said that the only reason why a pharmacist should refuse to fill a script is if he feels that doing so would harm an individual. Now since life can be defined from any point after the egg and sperm combine the topic becomes iffy.
But of course since pharmacies are private companies they can do whatever the fuck they want end of story.
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Le_Canard
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Re: Pharmacists refusing to give birth control to women due to morals [Re: d33p]
#3348881 - 11/11/04 08:59 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wow such ignorance. No one in this thread understands the context nor the purpose of the law allowing pharmacists to refuse to fill prescriptions. Although i disagree with pharmacists not giving out pre-conceptual birth control specifically, thats just groundless and stupid.
Most of us apparently don't live in your world, you see. Besides, you can't even remember what you wrote. Enough said...
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