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Who are the Terrorists?
    #1195579 -

I have just read some posts that I find very frightening. I for one have found some of the people who have recently posted and made completly racial comments to be some of the best on these boards in form as well as thought. In fact, there is not one soul here that I would put more wieght in words on but his question - If you know of any terrorists from attacking my country from the outside that aren't of Middle Eastern descent please list them and I'll change my opinion. at least deserves a real response....

Timothy McVeigh ( whom I kinda admire for shooting 2 Iragi's with one bullet during the Persian Gulf War, not for the deaths but just for the damn accuracy and timing)
His accomplis whom I forget the name. Terry something
The Olympic Park bomber.
The Unibombler - Ted Kazinsky
The Abortion Shooter guy
ALL the school shooters ie Comombine
The Washington Area Snipers
The Simbainese Liberation Army
and that's what I can think of off of the top of my head, and by the way NONE of them are TOWL HEADS......

The fact is that most of American terrorism has not been propagated by Arabs. The fact is that more people 5.17 x's the number that died in the WTC, Pentagon, and the people on the planes, die from drunk driving than anything else. Do you see ARMIES mobiliezed from such dipshittedeness?


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Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.

Edited by upupup (01/06/03 04:42 PM)

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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: upupup]
    #1195658 -

Dear upupup,

Thank you for that post. It's nice to see somebody trying to look at an issue from all sides.

One word of advice: if you don't want to be frightened, don't visit this forum. There are people here who hold some incredibly frightening views of the world. The TRULY frightening thing is that most of the people here are probably a bit above average.

OK, brace yourself. The Hunnish horde is about to flame you big time.

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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1195709 -

The Hunnish horde is about to flame you big time

Bring it on. I was married to a woman from Butte Montana once. Nothing could be worse than that.....


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Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.

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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: upupup]
    #1196410 -

Great post, it's good to see someone who has the decency and presence of mind, to acnoledge his mistakes (or his country's)...

Kep it up




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What the hell am I supposed to write here???

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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: upupup]
    #1196412 -

LOL is it THAT bad???


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What the hell am I supposed to write here???

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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: upupup]
    #1196603 -

Here are a few more to add...

The IRS
Animal Liberation Front
The DEA
Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty
The ATF & Janet Reno

and that's what I can think of off of the top of my head...


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Edited by Evolving (01/07/03 02:34 AM)

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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: upupup]
    #1196980 -

I don't get it. The guy asked, "If you know of any terrorists from attacking my country from the outside that aren't of Middle Eastern descent please list them and I'll change my opinion."

Unless I am mistaken, all the people you listed were American residents or citizens, weren't they? They weren't attacking the country from the outside. And some of them weren't even terrorists, they were just plain old serial killers.

The Symbionese Liberation Army were a purportedly revolutionary group using terrorist tactics, so I agree they meet the definition of "terrorist". The Unabomber could also be considered a terrorist, because he sent letters to the authorities claiming his bombs were in retaliation for government policies he disagreed with. McVeigh... depends who you listen to. Some say he did it for political reasons, others say he never sent any demands, so he was just a whacko trying to justify his appetite for destruction with political rhetoric once he got caught.

But the Olympic Park bomber, the various school shooters (i.e. Columbine), the Washington area snipers... these can't be classified as terrorists, just as killers.

pinky





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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: Evolving]
    #1197530 -

And the FBI, they were there at Waco and Ruby Ridge too.

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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: Phred]
    #1198108 -

You don't have to make demands to be a terrorist. If you did, then technically the people who flew those planes into the WTC weren't terrorists.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: Phred]
    #1198338 -

Nice post pink  (I hope that is not some sort of commy reference  :ooo:)

You are right. He did say outside the US. Damn stright. I still can think of several that did come from outside the US.
1- The Japenese via propaganda and actual acts did launch a few weapons of destruction on the west coast during world war two. Those acts were one of the reasons why Japanese Americans were incarcerated during that time.
2- The Germans did the same thing off the eastern coast, but alas, no germans were rounded up in the US at ANY time during WW2.

We as a country are geographically isolated. That is one reason why "national, strategic interests" are so important for us as a nation to look at.  :confused: :confused:

One thing though, you miss the point of the whole label thing which is implied if not obviouse. One mans terrorist is another mans "freedom fighter". What would England call the American Revolutionary Army today eh?

Terrorist as defined by webster is-
ter.ror.ism n (1795): the systematic use of terror esp. as a means of coercion -- ter.ror.ist adj or n -- ter.ror.is.tic adj

seems to me to encompas the Olympic Park Bomber, School Shooters, and especially the washington area snipers BECAUSE they sought to create fear in peoples minds thus coercing them to act different than they would normally.


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Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.

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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1198807 -

You don't have to make demands to be a terrorist. If you did, then technically the people who flew those planes into the WTC weren't terrorists.

That's what makes Al-Quaeda different from the usual terrorist crowd -- they don't immediately issue a statement taking credit for it. But once they're busted the usual statements appear -- "We object to the American Infidels defiling the Holy Places", "We object to Israel's actions in Palestine and the Great Satan's support of Israel", etc.

There is a growing body of opinion that a lot of the terrorist groups (or at least their leaders) don't really have any "cause", they just get their kicks out of destruction. Osama bin Laden fits this profile -- at first he justified his acts because the Saudi Royal Family are oppressors, then it was that the Soviets were occupying Afghanistan, then back to the Saudis again, then that Americans were defiling the Holy Places, then it was Americans helping Israel.

pinky


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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: upupup]
    #1198850 -

Nice post pink (I hope that is not some sort of commy reference

Nope. I am as far from a commie as it is possible to get.

I still can think of several that did come from outside the US.
1- The Japenese via propaganda and actual acts did launch a few weapons of destruction on the west coast during world war two. Those acts were one of the reasons why Japanese Americans were incarcerated during that time.
2- The Germans did the same thing off the eastern coast, but alas, no germans were rounded up in the US at ANY time during WW2.

Not the same thing. Those acts occurred during the course of a DECLARED WAR. There is a tendency to over-apply the term "terrorism" these days. If you get too broad, you might as well say that every action taken by every combatant in every war is "terrorism" in one form or another. For example, you refer to the German U-Boats sinking shipping off the Eastern coast of the US. That is not terror; it is standard strategic wartime practice -- cut the enemy's supply lines. Were the sailors on those ships terrified when a torpedo hit? Sure. But the act of torpedoing the ship wasn't "terrorism", because the PURPOSE of the act of torpedoing wasn't to instill terror; it was to prevent war materiel from making it to Europe.

seems to me to encompas the Olympic Park Bomber, School Shooters, and especially the washington area snipers BECAUSE they sought to create fear in peoples minds thus coercing them to act different than they would normally.

I disagree. Those people just wanted to kill. This is especially true of the guys who kill a bunch at a school, then themselves. Or at a post office, or a MacDonald's, or at their old job. As for the snipers, it's too early to say. I haven't seen any statements from either of them regarding their motives. My guess is that the older guy was just another psycho, and he dragged the kid along with him. A case of hero-worship on the kid's part.

pinky



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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: upupup]
    #1198869 -

it never ends .
were all a bunch of slightly evolved apes and youre losing your hair!
its all just chaos and order . so lets just sit back and watch the show!
cerified by qualty preowned lexus
drink more pepsi and dont forget to carboload and get extremely drunk
only buy premium unleaded when you have a few extra dollars to spend after all it contains new detergents to make your suv grin!


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"Every manual based on a complete teardown and rebuild." Haynes Publishing Group

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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: Phred]
    #1198891 -

Your post was thoughtfull as usual but you still missed the whole labeling thing. Beauty or terror is in the eye of the beholder and you back that up by saying If you get too broad, you might as well say that every action taken by every combatant in every war is "terrorism" in one form or another. since that is what it boils down to depending on who you are and your particular stance in the moment.

Saddam is a great example. When he was our buddy it was cool that he gassed 1,000's of kurds but as soon as it was in the US interest to not have him as one of our buddies we use it against him.

i was kidding about the pink thing. It's plain to see your no commy though I don't have bad feeling toward the word as the ONLY place on the planet that true communism has ever exisited and worked is in Isreal on Kibbutz......and that for almost 100 years....


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Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.

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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: upupup]
    #1198979 -

since that is what it boils down to depending on who you are and your particular stance in the moment.

If that is true, then there is no point in ever using the word "terrorist", since in SOMEONE'S eyes, EVERY criminal is a terrorist. Even NON-criminals would fit the bill: a Catholic priest threatening a parishioner with excommunication and eternal damnation if he doesn't change his ways would be a terrorist. A doctor threatening to stop treating a morbidly obese patient unless he loses a hundred pounds would be a terrorist. Both are using "scare tactics" to try to modify human behavior, right? Would a reasonable person call them terrorists? Nope.

Here is what I consider to be a pretty reasonable definition of terrorism, although some might argue that even it is a little broad:

?The term ?terrorism' means any activity that -- involves an act that is dangerous to human life or potentially destructive of critical infrastructure or key resources; and is a violation of the criminal laws of (insert country here) or of any State or Territory or Province or other subdivision of (insert country here); and appears to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping.?

By this definition, individuals who "go postal" are not terrorists, and the Washington snipers are no more terrorist than Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer or the Green River Killer.

Saddam is a great example. When he was our buddy it was cool that he gassed 1,000's of kurds but as soon as it was in the US interest to not have him as one of our buddies we use it against him.

The fact that he was not labelled a terrorist by the government in power in the United States at that time does not mean he wasn't a terrorist. Others elsewhere in the world certainly treated him as one.

pinky


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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: Phred]
    #1199024 -

Your point is exactly my point. In fact if you have EVER bought much less sold "drugs" ie pot, shrooms, LSD, whatever, your a terrorist to some and you can be your grandma that the terrorist label is going to get wider and wider as time goes on.

The fact that he was not labelled a terrorist by the government in power in the United States at that time does not mean he wasn't a terrorist. Others elsewhere in the world certainly treated him as one.

and there are many who would say the same of GB now eh?.....


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Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.

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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: Phred]
    #1199309 -

Quote:
There is a growing body of opinion that a lot of the terrorist groups (or at least their leaders) don't really have any "cause", they just get their kicks out of destruction. Osama bin Laden fits this profile -- at first he justified his acts because the Saudi Royal Family are oppressors, then it was that the Soviets were occupying Afghanistan, then back to the Saudis again, then that Americans were defiling the Holy Places, then it was Americans helping Israel.





Sorry but burden of proof...


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Always Smi2le

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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: Phred]
    #1199541 -

If you get too broad, you might as well say that every action taken by every combatant in every war is "terrorism" in one form or another.

So what do you consider bombing civilian areas such as Hiroshima, Dresden, London etc?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1199548 -

****So what do you consider bombing civilian areas such as Hiroshima***

a good shot?


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Who are the Terrorists? [Re: Phred]
    #1199552 -

That's what makes Al-Quaeda different from the usual terrorist crowd

What usual crowd? The crowd George Bush tells you are terrorists?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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