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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Chronic7]
    #11941644 -

Read Epictetus and you will understand what the Buddha was all about.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Icelander]
    #11941702 -

I thought reading the Buddha would be enough to understand the Buddha? :shrug:

Tbh, i was just joining in the poking at RGV as he's in the past expressed how he doesn't enjoy my interpretations of Buddhas words...


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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Chronic7]
    #11941812 -

It's rgv that doesn't "want" to understand imo.

I'm just playing off your statement though. Epictetus came to many of the conclusions that Buddha did but earlier in history I believe. He made it sound more practical however and less mystical or religious. You would like him I think.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Icelander]
    #11941899 -

"Do not seek to bring things to pass in accordance with your wishes, but wish for them as they are, and you will find them"

Thats pretty epic


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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Chronic7]
    #11941905 -

He had a lot of great one liners.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Icelander]
    #11941933 -

"
To accuse others for one's own misfortunes is a sign of want of education. To accuse oneself shows that one's education has begun. To accuse neither oneself nor others shows that one's education is complete.
Epictetus"



Never in any case say I have lost such a thing, but I have returned it. Is your child dead? It is a return. Is your wife dead? It is a return. Are you deprived of your estate? Is not this also a return?
Epictetus


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Icelander]
    #11942812 -

one of many (more than 12) meditations that buddha contrived to help people understand life better was the meditation on death.
impermanence.
this meditation type is quite valuable in a balanced program of meditation.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #11943081 -

Actually I'm still waiting for a link to back your assertions.

this meditation type is quite valuable in a balanced program of meditation.

Just don't forget the other 11 food groups.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Icelander]
    #11944632 -

which of my thousands of assertive statements need bolstering for you?


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #11944660 -

Don't play dumb. I asked you three times.

but only to embiggen that part of your self which must be neglected for you so to be fixated on death.

this is a known physiological side effect of lack of sex -
a person gets so distracted they think they're gonna die
they embiggen the idea of death!
it's just sex addiction!

you know that,
and if you don't your winkie does.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Icelander]
    #11951004 -

Icelander, what is so different about a sex drive than your death anxiety drive? Neither are a substantial theories, and to my understanding, RGVs just showed a reflection of your theory. Although I cannot know RGV's intent, I can say that I am not speaking about anything personal or psychological, as I will attempt to explain.

Whatever the case, do you actually think death anxiety drive, is any less of a psychoanalytical remark than sex drive?

The problem is, death anxiety should have its own net analogous  to "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". Of course a cigar refers to the phallus, and by that sex drive, while death has no such object, as we have discussed before. This is small detail, much more interesting than problematic to my following argument. I will make the case that the rhetorical weight of death anxiety naturally mirrors the sex drive.

To reconcile the equal of both theories, call your attention to a recent thread of mine that juxtaposed genealogy and evolution. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11540541#11540541. As I recall, you did not grasp my premise for one reason or another, and announced that I was fleeing the debate, much like RGVs is being blamed for here. Also, an interesting side story to this is that I derived this particular idea from RGVs, if only a very small seed of my understanding, which I would have given more credit to him for if I wasn't so sure at the time that I would misrepresent him.

So if you like, consider these entangled communications, as I will now refer to what seems to me to be entanglement in your philosophy.

Quote:
Yeah sex and death. Perceived by some, sex is the solution to death. All this male heir nonsense to carry on ones name as a sort of immortality. Or just to lose oneself  in the flow state of the sexual act or the pursuit and lust itself. Great shield for death anxiety.:thumbup:



Although this is all mixed up to me, you get at the essence of the problem. This bolded remark is precisely what I mean by the inherent problem with substance oriented genealogy, or in other words, the problems with representing evolution by western ontology. Or even as it is represented in art, this is like hamlet concerning the "authentic" genealogy of the king. You at least point out this morbid occupation with the king, but what about fair Ophelia?

The problem is that these representations are not pervasive enough to account for the being that must underlie genealogy. By being we are speaking of the process, or flow of evolution. (So why couldn't hamlet act, even after he revealed the kings genitive corruption? )

Hierarchical schemes are biased to their seated branches, no matter how extensively they are represented. This is evident in that their jutted branches do not present a flow of existence, but represent a jutted interval. This shorthand has its inherent problems. Or, this humanistic (other to animal) understanding of time, disposes us to a temporal representation of evolution, in a logistic sphere where it is impossible to represent the flowing process of being. But this is even manifest in the world for instance, in the generally flowing existence of animals, compared to the human that leaps distances by intervals of their soft and hard technology (techne) of the mind.

But to our representation, specifically, what are these intervals?

They are the human representations of sex or death, whether new branch juts out, or a line ends. They are both equally the representations, as the ostensible consummations of existence. Both sex and death, as representations, are equally contrary to the flow. Even while we may weigh them quite heavily as the drives of particular organisms in a genealogy, this does not substantiate an absolute condition of being. The speculation towards a sexual act or death, does not reveal the meaning of their consummation. Neither sex nor death are substantial to debate, their meaning is not represented in argument, however compelling it may be.

I do not think you can prove your theory, any more than RGVs might. By virtue of representation (dream) Freud can point every dream to sex, just as you will point towards death anxiety. In theory, not substance.

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: daytripper23]
    #11951023 -

Icelander, what is so different about a sex drive than your death anxiety drive?

It's about what precedes what. IMO sex addiction is due to death anxiety and not the other way around.

I'm not addressing the rest of your post because I didn't read it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Icelander]
    #11951078 -



Hmm so I guess you could say I'm the middle one...

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: daytripper23]
    #11951084 -

daytripper23 said:
I do not think you can prove your theory, any more than RGVs might. By virtue of representation (dream) Freud can point every dream to sex, just as you will point towards death anxiety. In theory, not substance.


It's an unverifiable theory.  Great post though.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Icelander]
    #11951149 -

you want me to find references on the web about your winkie?
I remember things I should never have seen, but no links sorry.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #11951168 -

I want you to back up claims you make, and not make off hand statements as if they are fact and then cut and run when someone asks you to support those claims.:thumbdown:

I remember things I  never have seen,

fixed


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (02/02/10 09:58 PM)

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: daytripper23]
    #11951458 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Icelander]
    #11951594 -

Icelander said:
Well lets go into this (in simple terms please). What would cause you anxiety if you were immortal? No death decay disfigurement, all the time in the world to put any problem off. No survival issues. Now how much would make you anxious?


Give a couple examples if you have them.



Even as an immortal you'd still have human wants and desires.

Thinking of Maslow's heirarchy of needs.  Even if you take out survival needs.  We still have 4 other needs that we need fulfilled.  Not having those needs met creates anxiety.

  I'm immortal, I'm lonely = anxiety
  ----"----------, I'm horny = anxiety
  ----"----------, I'm homeless= anxiety

Simplest explanation I've got.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11951904 -

Quote:
yeah, might be difficult to prove (depends on criteria), but RGV didn't suggest a theory. He dodged debate for what I see as two reasons: he has no direct solutions for the matter and because he thinks the topic should be dissolved. Either way it's in bad faith to circumvent the issue and not at least admit that you're circumventing it.



I can see my intent was misdirected in that post. I don't quite understand whats going on here.

But might the misunderstanding be due that the process-metaphysics of Buddhism remains (literally) silent on ontological matters? Whether or not this is strategic, buddhism is not a substantialist doctrine.

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. *DELETED* [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11951911 -

Post deleted by rebus_minus

Reason for deletion: .

Edited by rebus_minus (02/03/10 12:05 AM)

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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