Freedom said:

blackstatis said:

i'm just saying in terms of the self destruction, not a suicide or an implosion, but say you start to believe; i believe i don't have to eat anymore...  i dunno.  this is a hard one because if anyone says anything, we could retort with; well why do you believe that.  take away all beliefs and we would have nothing really.  maybe it would be just pure existence.

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Hunger is not a belief. Eating is not a belief. What is the bridge between hunger and eating? Can it be something other than a belief?

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Chronic777 said:

I use words but i don't identify with them, i have never identified myself as a Buddhist
I just understand what a Buddha understands, i don't feel the need to understand much else

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blackstatis said:

Freedom said:

blackstatis said:

i'm just saying in terms of the self destruction, not a suicide or an implosion, but say you start to believe; i believe i don't have to eat anymore...  i dunno.  this is a hard one because if anyone says anything, we could retort with; well why do you believe that.  take away all beliefs and we would have nothing really.  maybe it would be just pure existence.

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Hunger is not a belief. Eating is not a belief. What is the bridge between hunger and eating? Can it be something other than a belief?

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ok, i am lost... i believe.  ...um, you believe that if you eat you will not die.  same goes for the soul to some people.  if you do not feed it, your spirit will die.  thats what i guess i'm trying to say regarding dying.  if you don't feed the belief systems, they will die.

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Freedom said:

Anyone that you've known or heard of in real life?

And I don't mean just a big easy belief like heaven or god or aliens. I mean all
the way through to the subtle beliefs that you may not even know you hold.


When we are born we may not even be capable of beliefs, but very soon, far
before our brains are fully developed we form layers of belief, we build an
internal world made of beliefs intertwined with emotion, beliefs intertwined
with self, beliefs intertwined with memory. And this internal world is then
intertwined with the external world until we no longer see a difference between
what's real and what's our imagination.

We are seduced by our imagination. It offers such richness, even promises to
relieve us of fear and dispare. What happens when you strip it all away?

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astrixx said:

The problem from a philosophical standpoint is that you can't have action without belief.  If you cast of *all* your beliefs (indeed if this was even possible), you would be rendered actionless.  The philosopher Donald Davidson argued from the folk psychological standpoint.

He argues that the cause of any intentional action consists of:

1. belief
2. desire

Together, they comprise a "pro-attitude"

Without a pro-attitude, intentional action is impossible.  Indeed, I find it hard to think of action not being a result of a pro-attitude.

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amuzakat said:

Not sure if it's a mistake you're replying to me, but i don't and didn't disagree with what you say. What I wrote is that you can "cast off your belief" only by replacing them with some other ones. Within some limits of course. So there will always be beliefs, but the content of those belifs can change, and even does so both consciously and unconsciously all the time.

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Chronic777 said:

Icelander said:

But no, no one can completely cast off their programs.

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To an extent we all have our programs, but it is possible to see through them time & time again so they weaken in their grip & increase the sense of freedom/inner space/peace

Quote:

I can't even imagine what that would look like.

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Exaclty, imagination is what runs all the programs

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explosiveoxygen said:

So what is the result of no beliefs? Detached and apathetic experience?

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Do you really think that that is a necessary consequence of agnosticism?

explosiveoxygen said:

So what is the result of no beliefs? Detached and apathetic experience?

Sounds great.

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Who are you posting to.

Quote:

Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable. Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the differences between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief.

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I thought being agnostic means that you're unsure about everything, and that you have ideas which you don't put any amount of faith into.

Kickle said:

Chronic777 said:

I use words but i don't identify with them, i have never identified myself as a Buddhist
I just understand what a Buddha understands, i don't feel the need to understand much else

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How do you utilize words without identifying with them?
Is there not a reciprocal process wherein you buy into their meaning?
If they have no meaning and you don't identify with their meaning, I'm not sure how you could use them.

Same with buddhist thought -- I never said you were a buddhist, merely that you employ the thoughts. Seeing what a buddha sees just sounds like 'I identify with this thought because it is how I think'

If it is different, I'm interested in how

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Icelander said:

Sez you.


"Let us put our trust in the eternal spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unsearchable and eternally creative source of all life"

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