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 debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
 
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 8,334
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Last seen: 29 days, 10 hours
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 Rye Grain Moisture Content 
#1178645 - 12/30/02 02:11 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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1 cup of rye grain per quart jar. Soaked in water for 32 hours. Rinsed well, drained well. Loaded into quart jars (regular mouth w/bands and lids with .5" hole drilled and a filter disk on top) with a bit of gypsum. PC'd for 70 minutes at 15psi. No clumping, shakes very well. Looks dry to me. Hope I got the water content right... Does this sound ok? BTW, Inoculated in a "glove box" with crumbled BRF and now incubating at 80 degrees. Anyone had success with just soaking the grain, rinsing, draining, and PC'ing. TMC says I should load the jars with the grain and water in correct ratios and PC that way. Other tek's I've read (Alien?) say just to soak, rinse, drain. Think I did ok?
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debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 8,334
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Re: Rye Grain Moisture Content [Re: debianlinux]  1
#1179270 - 12/30/02 07:21 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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bump, cuz, if I did this wrong I wanna go ahead and do it right,... now.
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eternal
Greasy Granny'sGopher GravyTaste Tester
Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 251
Loc: Here? Is there any where ...
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 Re: Rye Grain Moisture Content [Re: debianlinux]
#1179371 - 12/30/02 07:56 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hello,
There are no simple answers to your question. I have been trying to Rye correctly now for 6 months. Finding the correct water to grain ratio takes time and practice. Patience is a key to all of this.
You will have to wait it out and see if you get any contams, and how and if you get the white fluffy stuff you desire.
Good luck and keep the patience it will all be worth it in the end.
Peace out!
Eternal 
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No matter where you go. There you are!
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debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 8,334
Loc: Over There
Last seen: 29 days, 10 hours
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Re: Rye Grain Moisture Content [Re: eternal]
#1179419 - 12/30/02 08:15 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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hrrm, I'm not too concerned about contams, my procedure is super-sterile. I'm mostly concerned about the grain running out of moisture. We'll see. This is my 1st experience with grain jars. I should have tried different water contents but my procedure involved a mass soaking so all the jars have the same water content. Do the grains normally appear drier after PC'ing? (BTW the tops were covered with Al foil during the cook) Next time I will be experimenting with various water contents but the holiday season really pressed me for time this time around. There is much experimentation ahead  . When the grain went into the PC they had a marked wet look (although I made sure to drain to the point that the surface tension of the water didn't "connect" from the kernel to the glass and there was no pooling in the bottom, also the grain was considerably inflated from the retained water, squeezing would not make any more water come out, no grains were bursted) once they came out of the PC they were still just as inflated but had a more dry look, not really looking wet at all. They shook around just as well as if they were dry. Just not really sure what I'm supposed to expect. Hopefully when I go to shake them in a day or so there will be a marked colonization (the crumbled BRF definitely mixed into the kerneles extremely well). Maybe I should move this thread to the grow-log forum? Sorry for so many questions but I really didn't expect the grain to look any different when it was cooked so now I'm all worried. Live and learn.
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bearrun
Stranger
Registered: 12/30/02
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Re: Rye Grain Moisture Content [Re: debianlinux]
#1180777 - 12/30/02 08:59 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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It sounds fine. When done right, they do seem dry...but they are not. If they ratttle, thats perfect, you don't want them sticking together, that would be too wet.
I tried a similiar method the other day and it seems to work perfect....so far!
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babyshroom
addict
Registered: 09/09/01
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Loc: Florida
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Re: Rye Grain Moisture Content [Re: debianlinux]
#1180979 - 12/31/02 01:34 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm with Eternal. I know some folks get lucky and have great results the first go around, but I've had a lot of trouble determining proper moisture content. I could never get it right with just soaking, I had megga problems with just adding the ingredients and pc'ing, but I've had a little more success lately with simmering until plump, draining 30 minutes and then loading the jars. It takes practice, that's for sure. And there are a lot of variables. We all get grains from different sources. Sometimes a grain (or seed) that has done well in the past will suddenly suck under the same conditions (f'ing Penningtons giving me a fit and I used to have great luck with it).
I used to do really well with seed, but everyone loves rye so much I feel like I have to tackle it to see what the fuss is about.
Also, unless you have very controlled conditions (temp controlled incubation & fruiting environments), the time of year (weather) can have a lot to do with your results. Some of my pcubs seem to love the cooler temps in my bedroom during winter, while others almost refuse to grow.
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I don't really know anyone who grows mushrooms. I just come here for fun.
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Major_Buzz
just like that
Registered: 02/14/02
Posts: 190
Loc: Left Bank
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
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Re: Rye Grain Moisture Content [Re: debianlinux]
#1181189 - 12/31/02 05:00 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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If I understand you soaked the grain, and then PCed it for an hour without adding any more water?
Most recipes that I've read call for either cooking the grain before or adding water to the jars before you pressure cook 'em.
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debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 8,334
Loc: Over There
Last seen: 29 days, 10 hours
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Re: Rye Grain Moisture Content [Re: Major_Buzz]
#1181210 - 12/31/02 05:23 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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that is correct. I get completely mixed signals. from what I've heard above I got it right. i have 4 different methods in 4 different teks\recipes. The easiest and most similarly referenced was to soak 24-48hrs, rinse, drain, and then pc (15psi) for 1 hour. only time will tell, I will try the other methods in the future esp. if this way fails.
could you outline what method you use yourself? include ratios.
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Major_Buzz
just like that
Registered: 02/14/02
Posts: 190
Loc: Left Bank
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
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Re: Rye Grain Moisture Content [Re: debianlinux]
#1181859 - 12/31/02 12:38 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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Anonymous
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Re: Rye Grain Moisture Content [Re: Major_Buzz]
#1182236 - 12/31/02 07:35 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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here is what I do I've been using it for the last 3 months now and no contams.this for pint jars SOme people just put 2/3 cup rye then 1/3 cup of water then PC for 60 minutes I found it ok but most of the time it to dry or really wet once done PC.
I take 6 cups of rye berries put them in a pot bring to a boil then turn down the heat till there just steam coming off the top of the water. After about 40 minutes or so you will see them starting to exploded cuz they're so full of water. Take them off and drain them and run cold water over them that will stop them from cooking longer. Let drain for 30 minutes then load your jar 3/4 full put your top on I use polyfill then put Alum foil over that. then I PC them at 15psi for 60 minutes. I have not had any contams yet with this the grain will look dry at first but once you shake it you will see it nice and moistafter I innoc my jars I see growth from 2 to 4 day after and they go fast most of the jars are colonized in 7 to 14 days
this jar started 3 days after i innoc it.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 27 days, 7 hours
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Re: Rye Grain Moisture Content [Re: debianlinux]
#1182346 - 12/31/02 11:58 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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This is what I do after lots of trial and error and it seems to work...
Slow boil rye berries for an hour or so... lots of extra water here... drain the water and load into jars... I then add about a teaspoon of water for each cup of berries and PC for 1.5 hrs...
... and the most important step...
After the PC, while the jars are still too hot to hold, shake them up!
Be careful with your presoak for >24hrs... you don't want to give the grain time to germinate...
A good source of info is at www.fungifun.org/rye, though I believe anno has moved the info (minus the pictures) to the shroomery faq now.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 8,334
Loc: Over There
Last seen: 29 days, 10 hours
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Re: Rye Grain Moisture Content [Re: Seuss]
#1182384 - 01/01/03 02:28 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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after the posts above and checking my jars last night I'm pretty sure it was done correctly. There were quarter sized blotches of mycelium (probably about 5-6 per jar) in each jar and no visible contams, gave them a good shaking and will check again in 2 more days. thanks for the input. <>
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neonhigh
blah
Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 24
Last seen: 21 years, 7 months
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Re: Rye Grain Moisture Content [Re: debianlinux]
#1182500 - 01/01/03 05:15 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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I agree with fiend.
I soak the grain for 24 hours in distilled water, drain, add the premeasured water and PC. I believe that the benefit of soaking is to give any bacteria in the rye a chance to germinate, so that it can be destroyed during sterilization. The grain does not absorb nearly as much water as it does when pressure cooked, so too much water doesn't seem to be a problem.
In my personal experience, I like to have the grains swollen to about twice their dry girth aftter PCing. A few days after innoculation, the look dry again, but the mycelium spreads like wildfire, so I assume I'm doing something correctly.
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debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 8,334
Loc: Over There
Last seen: 29 days, 10 hours
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Re: Rye Grain Moisture Content [Re: debianlinux]
#1186254 - 01/03/03 01:45 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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an update:
checked this morning for the scheduled shaking and colonization is still moving along but not as fast as I had hoped. I do think the lack of moisture is slowing it down. Some of the jars were more completely colonized than others. I am interested in transferring some of these jars into next generation jars with the proper moisture content. How much percent colonized does a jar need to be before I use it to inoculate more jars? EDIT: On the same topic: What percent colonization is the minimum necessary before spawning the rye into poo? I know 100% colonization is optimal but if growth stalls out because of dryness then wtf? Seems I'd be better off mixing into a new and different substrate with proper moisture content, or should I leave it alone until it actually does stall (maybe it won't) then mix into poo/inoc. more rye?
Edited by debianlinux (01/03/03 03:13 AM)
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debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 8,334
Loc: Over There
Last seen: 29 days, 10 hours
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Re: Rye Grain Moisture Content [Re: debianlinux]
#1186992 - 01/03/03 07:13 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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a little bumpy bumpy since this seems like anyone with experience with rye/poo could answer this. maybe not. smack me around a little if I need it.
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On_the_Down-Low
Polyfil-ophile-Say it 3 timesfast.
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 401
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
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Re: Rye Grain Moisture Content [Re: debianlinux]
#1187235 - 01/03/03 08:32 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ugly truth:
Screw what worked for everyone else- it's pretty much trial and error- "test and track" - to find what works for YOU.
You can take the grain outof the jars at any %, but the tradeoff is the contam RISK. If a jar is stalled, I say take the shot and go for it. Spawn it.
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