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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Depression [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11375411 -

deCypher said:
Quote:
Grapefruit said: You can only know something if there is enough objective evidence.


Based on whose standards?  Objectively speaking, there is no way to prove that I am conscious, yet I know it based solely on my subjective experience.


I would consider this a different thing from knowing a truth because it's not a perception of something external unlike the truth. You could say this is my truth for example but that is not an ultimate truth.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Re: Depression [Re: Grapefruit]
    #11375432 -

It's not an ultimate truth that you're conscious?  I would say by definition all knowledge internal and external is classified under ultimate truth.  If it's not ultimately true, then it can't be knowledge (justified true belief).

Or perhaps solipsism is correct and you really don't exist after all... :rockon:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Depression [Re: deCypher]
    #11375443 -

Or perhaps solipsism is correct and you really don't exist after all... :rockon:



It could happen.:laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Depression [Re: deCypher]
    #11375452 -

It's not true to me that you are conscious so I would say not. Mystics always seem to suggest that this thing they have seen in themselves is the same for everyone else and definate universal constant. That is what ultimate truth suggests to me along with all the "look inside yourself".

I can't prove that anyone else is conscious if they want to claim otherwise then I don't know.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Depression [Re: Icelander]
    #11375464 -

you are me question mark?

proving it sure would be nice wouldn't it? like what do i have to prove in my existence? some people i'm sure like to run amok with this attitude.

Edited by akira_akuma (11/03/09 09:15 AM)

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Re: Depression [Re: Grapefruit]
    #11375467 -

Lack of proof does not imply falsity, though.  You are pragmatically assuming that it is true that I am conscious by replying to my post in a manner that implies I'm a self-aware agent capable of responding, or at least I would hope so.  :tongue2:

I agree that it's hard to agree with a mystic's 'self-evident' revelation of Ultimate Reality, but that doesn't mean that that revelation isn't true... only that it seems impossible to prove.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Depression [Re: Grapefruit]
    #11375478 -

It's not true to me that you are conscious so I would say not.

This seems to be stretching a point past resonability.  If you are reading his post here then there is consciousness behind it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Depression [Re: deCypher]
    #11375498 -

It's like saying I have a pixie that follows me around and then when someone says you don't thinking that although they can't see it it's really there. There is no way to tell IMO. Maybe there are pixies everywhere.

Quote:
Lack of proof does not imply falsity


True but it does imply that it's not verifyable.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Depression [Re: deCypher]
    #11375499 -

I agree that it's hard to agree with a mystic's 'self-evident' revelation of Ultimate Reality, but that doesn't mean that that revelation isn't true... only that it seems impossible to prove.

What I'm interested in is why would so many who haven't had the unprovable experience of ultimately reality have such a passionate belief in it and defend the idea so passionately.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Depression [Re: Icelander]
    #11375516 -

Icelander said:
What I'm interested in is why would so many who haven't had the unprovable experience of ultimately reality have such a passionate belief in it and defend the idea so passionately.


1. Most people believe things because they prefer attractive fantasies to harsh realities.

and

2. Most people identify themselves with their ideas so any attack on the latter is seen as an attack on the former.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Depression [Re: Icelander]
    #11375517 -

sounds like nihilism to me. aren't you waiting like the rest of us, for that apocalyptic day of reproach where we find out wether we were wrong or not? a day of change it'll be !! :crazy2:

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Re: Depression [Re: deCypher]
    #11375578 -

Well that's what I was thinking too.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Depression [Re: akira_akuma]
    #11375588 -

akira_akuma said:
sounds like nihilism to me. aren't you waiting like the rest of us, for that apocalyptic day of reproach where we find out wether we were wrong or not? a day of change it'll be !! :crazy2:


Sure but logically I doubt I will find out anything at all. Just more questions and then nothing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Depression [Re: Icelander]
    #11375626 -

Hey sup?
Fine you?
Good, good, I just went to a restaurant with my girlfriend.
Right, where is your evidence, do you have any proof to substantiate your claim. You do realize the burden of proof is on the claimant so as long as you can't provide any scientifical evidence you did not go to a restaurant with your girlfriend.

Icelander could be replaced by a scripted bot which simply posts "where is your evidence" in each topic, I don't think anybody would notice the difference.

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Re: Depression [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11375652 -

The master speaks.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Depression [Re: Icelander]
    #11375727 -

Where is your evidence that I have spoken? Maybe someone hacked into my account and posted under my name  or someone had access to my computer. The burden of the proof is on the claimant. If you want to claim I have spoken, you'll have to provide scientific evidence first.

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Re: Depression [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11375753 -

:tinfoil:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Depression [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11375764 -

Diaboleros said:
Where is your evidence that I have spoken? Maybe someone hacked into my account and posted under my name  or someone had access to my computer. The burden of the proof is on the claimant. If you want to claim I have spoken, you'll have to provide scientific evidence first.



I don't want to claim you have spoken.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Depression [Re: Icelander]
    #11375803 -

Where is your evidence for the claim that you don't want to claim? How can I believe you without scientific evidence?

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Re: Depression [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11375809 -

I am lying.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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