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DragonChaser
Ice in Her Ass and Pussy

Registered: 04/27/06
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Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: koraks]
#11277708 - 10/19/09 02:17 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

koraks said:

DragonChaser said:

The DIFFERENCE between .99 repeating and 1 DOES NOT EXIST.

I disagree; think of a limit. A function may have a valid value for x=0.99 recurring, but not for x=1. Hence, they are not the same.

It doesn't matter if you disagree. This has been proven countless times by countless mathematicians.

You don't need to give me a link on what a limit is; I'm a math major, I've taken more than one proofs class.

Sorry, but, you're wrong. And your comparison to a limit has nothing to do with the answer here. With a limit, you're taking values and seeing what they approach. .99 repeating is a number. It doesn't approach anything, it doesn't move on the number line. It has a place on the number line, and that place is 1.

And a function can't have a value for .99 repeating if its undefined at 1. How the hell would you check to try to find it?

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My name is Mud

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koraks

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,949

Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: blewmeanie]
#11277761 - 10/19/09 02:26 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

blewmeanie, I think the first two equations are flawed, in fact. In my opnion, strictly speaking, 1/3 ≈ 0.333rep; not 1/3=0.333rep. Then again, it's a matter of semantics. For actual support of my statement, refer to my post on limits above.

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koraks

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,949

Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: DragonChaser]
#11277799 - 10/19/09 02:32 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

DragonChaser said:

And a function can't have a value for .99 repeating if its undefined at 1. How the hell would you check to try to find it?

Exactly. Hence, they are not the same. It doesn't matter what limit the function approaches, the fact is that its value is undefined at 0.99rep. and it doesn't exist on 1. How can they be the same as they apparently behave differently?

Quote:

This has been proven countless times by countless mathematicians.

Well, I'm not a mathematician, so I only have some basic knowledge to rely on. What do these countless mathematicians offer to support your statement? I'm willing to accept that I'm wrong, but just not quite yet :wink:

:wink:

And yes, I accept that you probably know a lot more on the subject than me, but I don't fully understand your argument yet, so please enlighten me.

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DragonChaser
Ice in Her Ass and Pussy

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Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: koraks]
#11277803 - 10/19/09 02:32 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Once again, your post on limits has absolutely no bearing on what we're talking about.

http://polymathematics.typepad.com/polymath/2006/06/no_im_sorry_it_.html

Read through this if you don't believe .99 rep=1.

Have you taken proofs courses, or real analysis? Real Analysis is also referred to as "Advanced Calc". So don't think you can take your calc 1 understanding of a limit and apply it to this situation. A function CANNOT have a limit at .99 repeating if it doesn't have a limit at 1.

Like I said before, if two numbers do not equal each other, then you can find their difference. If you can't find the difference, it doesn't exist.
If you claim .99rep isn't 1, then find me its difference. Whats 1-.99rep?

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Irdamage
Autobot

Registered: 11/19/05
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Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: DragonChaser]
#11277807 - 10/19/09 02:33 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

DragonChaser said:

koraks said:

DragonChaser said:

The DIFFERENCE between .99 repeating and 1 DOES NOT EXIST.

I disagree; think of a limit. A function may have a valid value for x=0.99 recurring, but not for x=1. Hence, they are not the same.

It doesn't matter if you disagree. This has been proven countless times by countless mathematicians.

Exactly the reason I love and hate math, but this is true. 1 = 9/9 = 9 x 1/9 = 9 x .1111etc = .9999 etc, transitive property and so forth. wiki it if your unfamiliar.

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koraks

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,949

Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: DragonChaser]
#11277812 - 10/19/09 02:34 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

DragonChaser said:

Whats 1-.99rep?

0.00rep, which you will argue to be equal to 0.

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DragonChaser
Ice in Her Ass and Pussy

Registered: 04/27/06
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Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: koraks]
#11277813 - 10/19/09 02:34 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

koraks said:

DragonChaser said:

And a function can't have a value for .99 repeating if its undefined at 1. How the hell would you check to try to find it?

Exactly. Hence, they are not the same. It doesn't matter what limit the function approaches, the fact is that its value is undefined at 0.99rep. and it doesn't exist on 1. How can they be the same as they apparently behave differently?

I don't even know what the hell you're talking about here. What you should have said here, if you understood what I was saying was "Hence, they are the same".

--------------------
My name is Mud

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koraks

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,949

Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: DragonChaser]
#11277819 - 10/19/09 02:35 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

DragonChaser said:

http://polymathematics.typepad.com/polymath/2006/06/no_im_sorry_it_.html

Thanks for that btw, I'm gonna read that :thumbup:

:thumbup:

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koraks

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,949

Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: DragonChaser]
#11277832 - 10/19/09 02:36 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

DragonChaser said:

koraks said:

DragonChaser said:

And a function can't have a value for .99 repeating if its undefined at 1. How the hell would you check to try to find it?

Exactly. Hence, they are not the same. It doesn't matter what limit the function approaches, the fact is that its value is undefined at 0.99rep. and it doesn't exist on 1. How can they be the same as they apparently behave differently?

I don't even know what the hell you're talking about here. What you should have said here, if you understood what I was saying was "Hence, they are the same".

I'm sorry, I misread your post. I didn't know x=.99rep by definition doesn't have a value for a function with a limit at x=1.

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DragonChaser
Ice in Her Ass and Pussy

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Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: koraks]
#11277852 - 10/19/09 02:39 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

koraks said:

Well, I'm not a mathematician, so I only have some basic knowledge to rely on. What do these countless mathematicians offer to support your statement? I'm willing to accept that I'm wrong, but just not quite yet

DragonChaser said:

If X doesn't equal Y, then there is a real number Z (the difference between X and Y) such that X+Z=Y. (this is just a property of real numbers)
X=.99 repeating
Y=1
You can't solve for Z. Z doesn't exist. The DIFFERENCE between .99 repeating and 1 DOES NOT EXIST.

This is one basic proof.
But if you haven't taken proofs courses, if you don't understand how proofs work, it won't mean much.

Another would be to assume that X doesn't equal Y, .99 rep doesn't equal 1.

If you claim .99rep<1, then by properties of the real numbers, there are an infinite many real numbers between .99rep and 1. But there aren't.

--------------------
My name is Mud

Edited by DragonChaser (10/19/09 02:46 PM)

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DragonChaser
Ice in Her Ass and Pussy

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Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: koraks]
#11277870 - 10/19/09 02:43 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

koraks said:

I'm sorry, I misread your post. I didn't know x=.99rep by definition doesn't have a value for a function with a limit at x=1.

No no no...

I'm saying if you have a function like (x^2 - 1)/(x-1), it would be defined everywhere except for x=1. Right? You can factor the numerator as (x-1)(x+1) then cancel the (x-1) in the numerator and the denominator. The limit as x approaches 1 would be 2, right?

This function exists everywhere, except at x=1. To me it sounded like you were claiming that it could have a value at x=.99rep, I'm saying it can't, specifically because .99rep=1. But lets ignore that for a moment, because the point is to prove that .99 DOES equal 1. If you think the function has a value at .99rep, then let me just ask you, what is it?

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My name is Mud

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koraks

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,949

Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: DragonChaser]
#11277890 - 10/19/09 02:47 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I follow your explanation, but still (and I know what position I'm in attempting to discuss this, but I enjoy the argument)...

Quote:

If you think the function has a value at .99rep, then let me just ask you, what is it?

It's infinitely close to 2, but just not quite, in my imagination.

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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 15 years, 25 days

Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: koraks]
#11278018 - 10/19/09 03:09 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

koraks said:

DragonChaser said:

The DIFFERENCE between .99 repeating and 1 DOES NOT EXIST.

I disagree; think of a limit. A function may have a valid value for x=0.99 recurring, but not for x=1. Hence, they are not the same.

the difference is 10^-x were x goes to infinity :goose:

:goose:

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pwnasaurus
Stranger

Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada

Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: koraks]
#11278027 - 10/19/09 03:11 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

And if you take that limit, you get zero when you evaluate.

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purified
Stranger

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 201
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months

Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: purified]
#11278048 - 10/19/09 03:14 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

.9 repeating doesn't equal 1. It approaches the asymptote at 1, getting closer and closer but never actually reaching it if you were to graph this.

Fractions are exact, decimal representations of fractions are not exact, they are approximations. In some cases they are exact, such as 1/4 = .25 . This is not the rule, these kind of fractions are an exception to the rule. Pi is an example of another fraction which cannot be represented as a decimal number, but can be exactly represented as a fraction.

Practically speaking, as far as engineering goes even .9999 can be considered equivalent to 1 because it is "close enough," depending on what tolerances you are dealing with.

Mathematically speaking, .3 repeating * .3 repeating = .9 repeating, not 1.
If you punch this into a calculator it will say that it is equal to 1, this is because a calculator is a computer, and it is limited to a certain number of digits depending on the number of bits the processor can handle, so it rounds the answer.

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DragonChaser
Ice in Her Ass and Pussy

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 7,212
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months

Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: learningtofly]
#11278051 - 10/19/09 03:14 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

And that's not a real number.

Sorry Koraks if I was a dick earlier, I'm just stressed. I've got 2 weeks of Partial Differential Equations homework to catch up on, an Advanced calc test to study for, advanced calc homework due, a chapter I have to write for a textbook due Wednesday that I haven't started, about a months worth of work for Lie Algebras to do, and I didn't even get to have a good weekend, I was writing programs for a probabilities course all weekend, or I was at work. I've been up since 6 because I'm tutoring at a local high school, and I work nights at a video store.

So basically... I'm stressed out.

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My name is Mud

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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
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Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: purified]
#11278065 - 10/19/09 03:16 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

purified said:

.9 repeating doesn't equal 1. It approaches the asymptote at 1, getting closer and closer but never actually reaching it if you were to graph this.

Fractions are exact, decimal representations of fractions are not exact, they are approximations. In some cases they are exact, such as 1/4 = .25 . This is not the rule, these kind of fractions are an exception to the rule. Pi is an example of another fraction which cannot be represented as a decimal number, but can be exactly represented as a fraction.

Practically speaking, as far as engineering goes even .9999 can be considered equivalent to 1 because it is "close enough," depending on what tolerances you are dealing with.

Mathematically speaking, .3 repeating * .3 repeating = .9 repeating, not 1.
If you punch this into a calculator it will say that it is equal to 1, this is because a calculator is a computer, and it is limited to a certain number of digits depending on the number of bits the processor can handle, so it rounds the answer.

Pi is an example of another fraction which cannot be represented as a decimal number, but can be exactly represented as a fraction.

pi is irrational and therefor cannot be represented as a fraction brah

:coaster:

:coaster:

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Edited by learningtofly (10/19/09 03:17 PM)

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WyattsTorch
Night Viking

Registered: 07/21/06
Posts: 164
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Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: learningtofly]
#11278136 - 10/19/09 03:28 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Everyone in this thread got trolled lol

But yeah: 0.99999...infinitely repeating=1

It's not close. It's not almost 1. It's 1.

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koraks

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,949

Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: DragonChaser]
#11278138 - 10/19/09 03:29 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

DragonChaser said:

So basically... I'm stressed out.

Yeah, no harm done there :thumbup:

:thumbup:

Good luck with the work, it's a bitch.

I still haven't accepted it fully, but I find it hard to support my doubt without falling back on semantics.

Quote:

pi is irrational and therefor cannot be represented as a fraction brah

tis true, I'm afraid.

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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
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Last seen: 15 years, 25 days

Re: .99999 repeating doesn't equal 1

[Re: WyattsTorch]
#11278166 - 10/19/09 03:33 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

WyattsTorch said:

Everyone in this thread got trolled lol

But yeah: 0.99999...infinitely repeating=1

It's not close. It's not almost 1. It's 1.

no it's not. It's really close but it's not 1.

Lim f(x)=x+1
x->1

will never = 2 cuz x DOESNT EQUAL 1

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