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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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I think I just have time to get a run in.
    #11219583 -

This is a line from a movie that got me thinking.


Here was this guy. Shallow, self-centered, a real player and successful. He was cheating on his wife with a co-worker who he was stringing along telling her the relationship was the real thing. Actually he was also one night standing any good looking babe he could score. He had plenty. Right after he would orgasm he would check his watch and say cheerfully to whomever he just fucked. I think I may just have time to  get a run in. He was very health conscious and in very good shape. Lots of energy and a success in his business. Fairly rich.

So I was thinking. Does the Universe/Tao care that he is that way? Does it wait for his eventual enlightenment? Now this guy seemed pretty upbeat all the time. If he was burying his true feelings of emptiness he was doing a good job and might just carry it off throughout his life. In other words he might have a happy but shallow (by some standards) life.

Now lets contrast that with someone who has very high anxiety states and mental problem and lots of guilt. He struggles constantly and is deeply depressed and miserable. He seeks out psychology, spirituality, philosophy, in hopes of finding his bliss but is having very small success. He's a pretty sad case but a very sensitive individual and a really good and caring person and continues to be fairly unhappy no matter what. Does the Universe care? Does it differentiate between the two. Does it care about them personally or just use use them both as fodder in the evolutionary parade?

These are the questions I ask myself. Now not many people are going to like it if the Universe doesn't care. We all like and may desperately want to be cared about personally.

In all my exploration, which has been extensive over 56 years, I can only come to the conclusion (although I'm never sure) that the Universe/Tao does not care about me personally. Now to be very honest I hate that and I don't like facing it day after day. But its not all black for me. In fact I'm really amazed and pleased at my fortitude in looking right in the face of something I wish wasn't true and not pretending it really couldn't be that way.  Actually it's kind of courageous and I don't consider myself a courageous person.

And one other good thing. It's getting easier to accept. Posting about it here has actually helped in this regard. Maybe eventually I won't care at all if the Universe doesn't care. That might be the bliss I've been searching for. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/10/09 09:19 AM)

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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: Icelander]
    #11219728 -

Is there any besides you?


--------------------
Ik hou van je

While you're still sleeping the saints are still weepin' cause things you call dead haven't yet had the chance to be born. -Scatman John

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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: Xeny]
    #11219733 -

at least you're consistant


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: Icelander]
    #11219880 -

I think 'care' is a very animalistic notion. The universe takes everything into consideration... in that way it cares about everything? But not in the way of human care that would bring comfort.

As far as Tao is concerned, The immorality (and the apparent lack of enlightenment) of this character's manipulative/dishonest nature merely exists in polarisation to our moral concepts of honesty.

The character seems to be bringing his own misery upon himself by having such shallow relationships with people. Though it could be said that he is a nymphomaniac due to some condition that was out of his control.Some would say that people are just products of their environment.

what's more comforting? being something that god cares about or being god himself? I think the latter is more comforting, even if it is harder to swallow for most people.

If the universe is judging you, I think it would probably judge you on your creativity, because the notion of a universe judging me implies a detatchment from determinism, and thus creativity is your input to the universe. This still begs the question though - what does the universe care about that it would pass judgement on?

But without any reason to think that immoral persons get punished... it seems that morality is not a function of the universe as a whole.

human lives are still just animal lives to the universe, even if our effect per unit is much greater than any other part of the ecosystem (in my awareness) and maybe posses unique conscious souls.

Do you think about the potential afterlife when you are having these ponderances, Icelander?


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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11219895 -

The character seems to be bringing his own misery upon himself by having such shallow relationships with people.

He brought no misery on himself it seemed. He seemed content. Since I explicitly stated he seemed happy enough your comment may expose a bias on your part.

However I do agree with your conclusions.

I don't really believe in an afterlife anymore so it really doesn't enter in to my considerations in a meaningful way.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: Icelander]
    #11220162 -

sorry I read your post wrong


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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11220208 -

good, im not the only one.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: Icelander]
    #11220342 -

Quote:
Does the Universe care? Does it differentiate between the two. Does it care about them personally or just use use them both as fodder in the evolutionary parade?


No, probably not. If it does, death is probably its greatest gift.                        ...Probably.

I personally don't hang a large weight on morality, subjectively it may create large +/- ripples in one's psyche, but objectively the dude you mentioned may have even been doing the ol' universe a favour sporkin' all them ladies. Makin' them babies!

If we are to personify the universe/Tao, do you think it would care more about the personal well being of one human being or the progressive parade of evolution?

But hell, maybe the Tao doesn't even know we're here! Like a yeast infection it hasn't noticed. :wink:

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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: Tropism]
    #11220367 -

Great post.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: Tropism]
    #11220401 -

Quote:
dude you mentioned may have even been doing the ol' universe a favour sporkin' all them ladies.


The spork is one of the greatest inventions of all time. :yesnod:


--------------------

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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11220448 -

So effiecient! And ooooh soooo sleeek. *drool*

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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11220460 -

It really comes down to wether or not this question  has relevance to my goals and happiness that arises from acheivement of them.

Really, this question does nothing to guide me towards my goals. I definitely will not sit idle and wait around for a universe to care about my goals and happiness.

I assumed that care meant the universe has a preference for certain goals and thus personally(potentially) my goals.

What good does it go? Questions are meant to map out journeys, journeys to achieve discoveries and goals. This question seems like it would do little to nothing if it was unanswered. It looks like more one of thos questions that attempts to fullfill some sort of desire to know whether something 'greater' than you, cares about your well being. If you were brought up religious it would be good to look into that because that has multiple emotional reprucussions for people and they usually (with exception of a few) do not benefit a person in this society.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #11220492 -

I started this thread as a counter point to the true believer who thinks somehow someway something personal about them is eternal. That something out there cares what happens to them.

And that there is another way to see things. Maybe a more difficult way but one that might be mastered to some degree.


I like to think as logically as I can. It feels good to me to be able to look at two things and choose the one that seems most true rather than the one that feels safest or looks prettier.

This is what I'm trying to get at. For myself especially.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: Icelander]
    #11220646 -

Now not many people are going to like it if the Universe doesn't care.

It would be a blessing.
Guilt for fear of being judged no longer applicable.
I
AM



Accepted.
:uptosomething:

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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: TheBalance]
    #11220649 -

good point, most wouldn't see it that way.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: Icelander]
    #11221204 -

I think when any one of us cares
that is a part of the universe caring
since we are a part of it

caring is attunement and sympathetic movement or vibration, communing.
the nature of the universe is that parts of it can be attuned to other parts.

at no one time does the universe rear up and say to the rest of itself that it really really cares about icelander, but we know it does here and there in small and big ways.

it has not turned its back on you


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #11221400 -

So are you saying the Universe at large is conscious and cares about me?

I know it can't turn it's back on me. That's religious thinking.

Good to see you old man. I stole a quote of Vs and put it in my sig. Maybe one of your best quotes.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: Icelander]
    #11222887 -

"it has consciousness in bits and drabs and some of that is turned to you",
is what I am saying, as a part of the universe, that you are speaking to/of/with.

(the grammar is awkward but works)


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #11222934 -

Yeah I get it that there is some consciousness in the Universe. A by product of biology or something.


But that's not why I posted this. I'm just pointing out that the belief of specialness my just be an illusion.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: I think I just have time to get a run in. [Re: Icelander]
    #11223145 -

I think if you look you'll find very few of the kind of people in your OP.  However, think about how horrible it would be if your life was that "good" or so you thought, then you have to come to terms with death.  I've thought about this could be something of an equalizer.  For a yuppie asshole, death is a huge fear, even a motivator for a lot of wasted energy, time.  For a starving african, being at deaths door might have a womblike comfort.

What makes happiness better than sadness, anyway?  What about those feelings in themselves makes one better than another?  Nothing, except our self centered notions on the matter.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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