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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: Chespirito]
    #11195187 -

lol, no


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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: Smitington]
    #11195478 -

hey man, at least you aren't being discouraged by all the jokes.

go get your education, take a bunch of physics and math classes, and maybe you can really make this into something.

it may be flawed now, but keep working at it, and good luck.


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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: Smitington]
    #11195521 -

I can't believe this thread is still going.  And that I'm still laughing...

:rofl:

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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #11195536 -

<--- check out my new Halloween avatar!


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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: cortex]
    #11195543 -

thanks guys, like the avatar :thumbup:


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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: Smitington]
    #11195654 -

Smitington said:
I am a genius



Being a genius doesn't give you a blanket license to completely make stuff up with no basis in reality, to communicate your ideas poorly, or to be excused from presenting evidence in support of your arguments.  We don't care if you're a genius or not, it has absolutely no bearing at all.  Thanks.

Quote:
Think of me what you will, I am not better than anything, and I have alot to learn before I turn this IDEA (hint hint) into a full fledged ready to be published theory.




We can tell you're going about this the wrong way because you haven't even admitted yet the possibility that once (if?) you do figure out what you're doing, you will realize that your "theory" doesn't make any sense. 

I'll leave you with the following:
Quote:
So we really ought to look  into theories that don't work,  and science
that isn't science.
    I  think  the  educational and  psychological studies I  mentioned  are
examples of what I would like to call cargo cult science.  In the South Seas
there is a cargo cult of people. During the war they saw airplanes land with
lots  of good materials, and  they  want  the same thing to happen  now.  So
they've  arranged to make things like runways, to put fires along the  sides
of  the runways, to make a wooden hut  for a man to  sit in, with two wooden
pieces  on  his head  like headphones  and  bars of bamboo sticking out like
antennas -- he's the controller -- and they wait for the airplanes  to land.
They're doing everything  right.  The form is perfect. It looks exactly  the
way it looked  before.  But it  doesn't work. No airplanes land. So  I  call
these  things cargo cult  science,  because  they  follow  all the  apparent
precepts  and  forms  of  scientific  investigation,  but  they're  missing
something essential, because the planes don't land.
    Now it behooves me, of course, to tell you what they're missing. But it
would be just about as  difficult to explain to the  South Sea Islanders how
they have to arrange things so that they get some wealth in their system. It
is not something simple like telling them how to improve  the  shapes of the
earphones. But there  is one feature  I notice  that is generally missing in
cargo cult science. That is the  idea that we all  hope you have  learned in
studying science in school -- we never explicitly say what this is, but just
hope that  you catch on by all  the examples of scientific investigation. It
is interesting, therefore, to bring  it out now and speak of  it explicitly.
It's a kind of scientific integrity, a principle of  scientific thought that
corresponds to a kind of utter honesty -- a  kind of leaning over backwards.
For  example, if you're  doing  an experiment,  you should report everything
that you  think might  make it invalid -- not  only what  you think is right
about  it: other causes that could possibly explain your results; and things
you thought of that you've eliminated by some other experiment, and how they
worked -- to make sure the other fellow can tell they have been eliminated.
    Details that could throw doubt on your interpretation must be given, if
you know them. You must do the best you can -- if you know anything  at  all
wrong, or possibly wrong  --  to  explain it.  If  you  make  a theory,  for
example,  and advertise it, or  put it out,  then you must also put down all
the facts that disagree  with it, as well as those that agree with it. There
is also a more subtle problem. When you have put a lot of  ideas together to
make an elaborate  theory, you  want to  make  sure, when explaining what it
fits, that those things  it fits are not just  the things that  gave you the
idea for the theory; but that the  finished theory makes something else come
out right, in addition.
    In summary, the idea is  to try to give all of  the information to help
others to judge the value  of  your contribution;  not just  the information
that leads to judgment in one particular direction or another.




From: "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!" (last chapter, "Cargo Cult Science")

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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #11195717 -

ChuangTzu said:
Smitington said:
How does it explain c?  I'll try to explain this again.  If space is quantized, that is comprised of a set of points, all matter and energy within space exists within these points, nothing can be between them.  If time is also quantized, there are not an infinite number of moments between any two points in time.  This means that there is some minimum value by which time clicks, and combined with space quanta there is some minimal length by which an object can move in one of these clicks of time quantum.  Now, in order for an object to move, it must pass through ever point in space between it's source position and destination, it cannot skip over any point in space.  What this entails is that the fastest an object can ever move is one space quantum per one time quantum.  This places a limit on how fast objects can move in the universe, which corresponds to what we have observed, that there is indeed a limit to how fast things can move.  For things to move slower than the maximum allowed speed, they do not move by one space quantum every tick of the time quantum.  Instead, they might stay within one space quantum for 3 time quanta, then move to the next space quantum and stay there for another 3 time quanta.  This relates to how natural units can express the speed of light. 



I'm curious how your "theory" deals with time dilation and length contraction...



Hey man, I answered your question a while back, you never said anything about it.

ChuangTzu said:
Being a genius doesn't give you a blanket license to completely make stuff up with no basis in reality, to communicate your ideas poorly, or to be excused from presenting evidence in support of your arguments.  We don't care if you're a genius or not, it has absolutely no bearing at all.  Thanks.



First, recognize the difference between me defending myself from a personal attack on my intelligence, and me saying I am a genius just so you guys will think my theories are better, or as a reason that they are good.  I have stressed over and over how I am not presenting my ideas well and that you guys are helping me realize the best way to present them.  I have also stated over and over that I want to learn more, need to learn more, but I have also stated my opinion of modern physics.  As far as evidence, I have provided as much of it as I could a while back, haven't seen you rebute any of it.  I thought this thread was over but if you would like we can get back into it.  Do you need me to remind you of the implications of quantum time and space?


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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #11195728 -

Thank you very much Chuang. Im gonna read that book once i finish up with the one im working on :vaped:


--------------------

Song of the week, click Huey:



Song of the week list in journal.


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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: Tedwilto]
    #11195815 -

oh an cortez whats the formula goin on inside that pumpkin?


--------------------

Song of the week, click Huey:



Song of the week list in journal.


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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #11195822 -

ChuangTzu said:
I'll leave you with the following:
Quote:
So we really ought to look  into theories that don't work,  and science
that isn't science.
    I  think  the  educational and  psychological studies I  mentioned  are
examples of what I would like to call cargo cult science.  In the South Seas
there is a cargo cult of people. During the war they saw airplanes land with
lots  of good materials, and  they  want  the same thing to happen  now.  So
they've  arranged to make things like runways, to put fires along the  sides
of  the runways, to make a wooden hut  for a man to  sit in, with two wooden
pieces  on  his head  like headphones  and  bars of bamboo sticking out like
antennas -- he's the controller -- and they wait for the airplanes  to land.
They're doing everything  right.  The form is perfect. It looks exactly  the
way it looked  before.  But it  doesn't work. No airplanes land. So  I  call
these  things cargo cult  science,  because  they  follow  all the  apparent
precepts  and  forms  of  scientific  investigation,  but  they're  missing
something essential, because the planes don't land.
    Now it behooves me, of course, to tell you what they're missing. But it
would be just about as  difficult to explain to the  South Sea Islanders how
they have to arrange things so that they get some wealth in their system. It
is not something simple like telling them how to improve  the  shapes of the
earphones. But there  is one feature  I notice  that is generally missing in
cargo cult science. That is the  idea that we all  hope you have  learned in
studying science in school -- we never explicitly say what this is, but just
hope that  you catch on by all  the examples of scientific investigation. It
is interesting, therefore, to bring  it out now and speak of  it explicitly.
It's a kind of scientific integrity, a principle of  scientific thought that
corresponds to a kind of utter honesty -- a  kind of leaning over backwards.
For  example, if you're  doing  an experiment,  you should report everything
that you  think might  make it invalid -- not  only what  you think is right
about  it: other causes that could possibly explain your results; and things
you thought of that you've eliminated by some other experiment, and how they
worked -- to make sure the other fellow can tell they have been eliminated.
    Details that could throw doubt on your interpretation must be given, if
you know them. You must do the best you can -- if you know anything  at  all
wrong, or possibly wrong  --  to  explain it.  If  you  make  a theory,  for
example,  and advertise it, or  put it out,  then you must also put down all
the facts that disagree  with it, as well as those that agree with it. There
is also a more subtle problem. When you have put a lot of  ideas together to
make an elaborate  theory, you  want to  make  sure, when explaining what it
fits, that those things  it fits are not just  the things that  gave you the
idea for the theory; but that the  finished theory makes something else come
out right, in addition.
    In summary, the idea is  to try to give all of  the information to help
others to judge the value  of  your contribution;  not just  the information
that leads to judgment in one particular direction or another.




From: "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!" (last chapter, "Cargo Cult Science")



Feynman! :bowdown:

His chess game analogy is one of my favorites.


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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: Tedwilto]
    #11195833 -

Tedwilto said:
oh an cortez whats the formula goin on inside that pumpkin?



IDK!  Maybe someone can tell me, I am in first year calc.  All I can say is it looks like some kind of integral...


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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: cortex]
    #11195864 -

haha alright. Yeah all i could get from that was that it was smoe sort of integral. Im also in first year calc. :rockon:


--------------------

Song of the week, click Huey:



Song of the week list in journal.


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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: Tedwilto]
    #11195869 -

Its amusing at times, but most of the book is about how great and witty he thinks he is.  Hes a brilliant man no doubt and one of the most important physicists however hes not quite as witty as he believes himself to be

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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: Chespirito]
    #11195876 -

Haha. I just read the introduction and it seems like a good read.


EDIT: guhh im 6 poasts away from 3000. I spend too much time on here. especially when ishould be doing linear algebras.


--------------------

Song of the week, click Huey:



Song of the week list in journal.


Edited by Tedwilto (10/06/09 08:46 PM)

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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: Tedwilto]
    #11195944 -

ChuangTzu, :whoo: for finding that quote.  The fact is as soon as I answered your question about time dilation and length contraction, you avoided the fact, and only resurfaced when the masses had apparently proclaimed victory over this thread.  You, and everybody else on here, fails to realize that as soon as people couldn't prove me wrong any more, this thread turned into people getting mad and calling names.  The thread was initially clearing up what I meant by dimensions and what I was trying to get acrossed, when it was cleared up, and quantum space and time were seen to be the point of my thread, a few questions were asked about it, some debate, until I provided an answer to how I would treat length contraction and time dilation, which no body has been able to debate.  Also, I provided an example for why quantizing space makes sense by asking the question if distance is a quantity, what is it quantizing.  Nobody was able to answer this question.  This is when the thread turned more and more into personal attacks on me and testing how much other physics and math I know, but the questions and answers I raised before you guys gave up are still up in the air and there is nothing any of you can do to try to repress the fact that you couldn't debate them.  So, ChuangTzu, as you would like to keep this thread going, I say we get back on topic, and continue where we left off.  You asked me a question, I gave you my answer. Explain how my answer is wrong.


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Edited by Smitington (10/06/09 09:02 PM)

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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: Smitington]
    #11196678 -

Your theory has no theory to it.  You claim you explain things but all you did was offer up a few sentences and claim you're done.  How are we supposed to take that seriously?  And furthermore in your theory you can always claim that the smallest distance changes.  For instance at the moment you might claim the smallest distance is X, then in the future if we are able to show we can deal with distances smaller than X you will say 'oh wait I meant the smallest was X/4'.

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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: Smitington]
    #11196990 -

Smitington said:
ChuangTzu, :whoo: for finding that quote.  The fact is as soon as I answered your question about time dilation and length contraction, you avoided the fact, and only resurfaced when the masses had apparently proclaimed victory over this thread.  You, and everybody else on here, fails to realize that as soon as people couldn't prove me wrong any more, this thread turned into people getting mad and calling names.




The only reasons we "can't prove you wrong anymore" is because

1) most of your claims are nonsensical, and no knowledgable person could possibly know where to begin your education;

2) the few claims which you've made that had some sort of sense to them were balantly false, yet although having been given many explanations each time, you refused systematically to acknowledge either the basic truth or your ignorance in the matter;

3) your attitude is displeasing : you act as though you know what you are talking about when in fact it is obvious you don't, and you tell people who do know what they are talking about that it is them who are ignorant.

Quote:
which no body has been able to debate.



I don't "debate" science. When I know something, for instance in mathematics, it is because I am able to supply a proof. With a proof, there is no "debate". What you have been calling a "theory" is not even close to that; at best, if you took out the parts that made no sense, you'd have one or two ambiguous claims with no evidence at all to back them.

 
Quote:
Also, I provided an example for why quantizing space makes sense by asking the question if distance is a quantity, what is it quantizing.  Nobody was able to answer this question.



I do not understand what the question means, and don't bother "explaining" what it means to me.

 
Quote:
This is when the thread turned more and more into personal attacks on me and testing how much other physics and math I know, but the questions and answers I raised before you guys gave up are still up in the air and there is nothing any of you can do to try to repress the fact that you couldn't debate them.



None of your questions had a precise meaning. If you ask me what "length" is, I will tell you to learn about the Lebesgue measure. If you ask me "If distance is a quantity, what is it quantizing?", I'll just stare at you in a weird way. I'm not even sure how the part of the question before the coma relates to the one afterwards. You might as well have asked "If the number of sheep in a pack of sheep is a number, what is counting?"

 
Quote:
I gave you my answer. Explain how my answer is wrong.



I'd be more interested in knowing why you think the question is relevant.


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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: isaacein]
    #11197152 -

isaacein said:
If you ask me "If distance is a quantity, what is it quantizing?", I'll just stare at you in a weird way. I'm not even sure how the part of the question before the coma relates to the one afterwards. You might as well have asked "If the number of sheep in a pack of sheep is a number, what is counting?"





:rofl:

That made me laugh out loud. My roomate did not find it as amusing.

Im using that as a quote in my sig.


--------------------

Song of the week, click Huey:



Song of the week list in journal.


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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: Tedwilto]
    #11197168 -

that was good


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Re: Let's understand dimensions [Re: Tedwilto]
    #11197591 -

Tedwilto said:
isaacein said:
If you ask me "If distance is a quantity, what is it quantizing?", I'll just stare at you in a weird way. I'm not even sure how the part of the question before the coma relates to the one afterwards. You might as well have asked "If the number of sheep in a pack of sheep is a number, what is counting?"





:rofl:

That made me laugh out loud. My roomate did not find it as amusing.

Im using that as a quote in my sig.



Haha! Thanks.




Tell your roomate he sucks. I'm a genius okay? :grin:


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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