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Invisibleivi
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Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash)
    #5854061 - 07/13/06 09:28 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)



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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: ivi]
    #5854432 - 07/13/06 11:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

That was really fucking cool.  :thumbup:

I've read this stuff many times, though usually in parts, and it always made sense.  But to see it put together and described in a graphical manner almost makes it seems new.

Thanks.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineYthanA
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: ivi]
    #5854705 - 07/13/06 01:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I almost posted this but I didn't. I forget why. It is really cool. First time I've actually been able to wrap my head around the higher dimensions. I have to give props to whoever came up with the concept in the first place. Additional dimensions are such a foreign concept you'd really have to be thinking outside the box.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: ivi]
    #5855127 - 07/13/06 03:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Holy hell, that was great.  :thumbup:


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InvisibleColonel Kurtz Ph.D
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: ivi]
    #5855364 - 07/13/06 05:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

wu-ow


Wow.


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:whatwhat:

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Offlinedaba
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Colonel Kurtz Ph.D]
    #5856952 - 07/14/06 03:35 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

There's a really famous manuscript (or book, I guess) called Flatland. Read it!

But other than that, very nice description and good flash.


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Fold for The Shroomery!


Edited by daba (07/14/06 03:45 AM)


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InvisibleSimisu
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: daba]
    #5857060 - 07/14/06 05:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

interesting...

so we're basically all just one single point which contains all there is/was/ever will be?
kinda comferting in a way :smirk:


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OfflineRuNE
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Simisu]
    #5858552 - 07/14/06 04:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

so we're basically all just one single point which contains all there is/was/ever will be?




I've been telling ppl that ever since my ego loss trip a few years back. All time is at one point. Which incidentaly means all matter in our universe is everywhere at the same time.


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~Happy sailing~


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: ivi]
    #5860518 - 07/15/06 01:09 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

In order to enjoy the media-rich nature of the Tenth Dimension website, you will need to upgrade to the latest version of Macromedia Flash. You can download the latest Flash plugin by clicking here. Below is the site content, made available for reference and ease of indexing. Note: OS 9 does not support the most recent flash plugin. As a result, OS 9 users will not be able to view the media-rich elements of this site.




hmm I cannot view this flash. can anyone save the flash file and send it to me or just attach it to this thread? in firefox, go to tools>page info>media and go to the file and "save as" - thanks :thumbup:


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OfflineImperialCactus
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: ivi]
    #5862482 - 07/15/06 05:58 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, I didn't read the book, so I imagine that would help a bit but am I the only one who thinks he's just making this up and pulling ideas out of his ass? The first three make sense, but then after that it just doesn't make any real sense to me... maybe it is just me then. I do believe it is very possible for there to be more than 3 dimensions, but not the explanation from the site. If anyone has read the book, does it elaborate more and actually seem possible?


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: ivi]
    #5862613 - 07/15/06 06:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Very cool and most enlightening. :thumbup:


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OfflineViveka
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: ivi]
    #5863687 - 07/16/06 12:12 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

So.....what's the point of this model? What can we derive from string theory that is actually useful to humanity, other than having another way to say "everything is everything"? Surely it's all grounded in some legit physics but what can string theory explain and what can it predict in terms of the scope of Universe we ever have a hope of grasping?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Viveka]
    #5864655 - 07/16/06 08:37 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

What can we derive from string theory that is actually useful to humanity




Imagine travel being possible at an instant speed (as seen from our dimension) or make the tastiest slice of apple pie of any possible universe appear on your mousepad. :laugh:

Seriously, if we could devise a way to fold/move through higher dimensions, we would have more power in reality than most people ascribe to the God they worship.

I find it EXTREMELY gratifying that each of these dimensional descriptions has in some guise or another has popped up in my personal quest for knowing the nature of the All, without having lifted it off existing theories. It shows me I might indeed be on the right track, and the track I'm thinking along, which I can't disprove, provides each and every one of us with a reward greater than heaven itself :sun:

It would be very elegant if the points in Dimension Zero are manifestations of the point that is Dimension Ten, thus having the snake bite its tail.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


Edited by Asante (07/16/06 08:42 AM)


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OfflineYthanA
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Viveka]
    #5864665 - 07/16/06 08:42 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

That's like asking why Neo spends all that time fucking around with a perfectly good matrix.


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OfflineViveka
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Asante]
    #5865298 - 07/16/06 12:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

It shows me I might indeed be on the right track, and the track I'm thinking along, which I can't disprove, provides each and every one of us with a reward greater than heaven itself




And that's just my point. Is string theory falsifiable in any way? Are there experiments that can display how super strings comprise matter and plancks make up sub atomic particles? It just seems like a radically abstract theory that is entirely untestable. If the model is valued because it aligns with mystical ways of thinking about the Universe and it's unfalsifiable, then it's useful as a mystical abstract, not a scientific theory. Unless your goal is to somehow de-empiricize science, in which case you're already going to have to throw out string theory bacuse notions of planck lengths, strings, bosons and branes are all anchored in an emprical model of the Universe.

As far as the fantastic awards you speak of, wouldn't heaven be a state of no craving for reward? So you get your intergalactic desserts, then what? What will it take to satisfy a meglomaniacal humanity whose power is so great it can fold dimensions at will and have sex with God's mom if it want's to?


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OfflineViveka
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Ythan]
    #5865325 - 07/16/06 12:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe that's why the last two movies sucked so hard.  Neo was trying too hard to make something out of nothing? :smirk:


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Viveka]
    #5866058 - 07/16/06 04:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Are there experiments that can display how super strings comprise matter and plancks make up sub atomic particles?




Should a very promising theory be dropped because no proof can be given at the very conception of said theory?

Quote:

It just seems like a radically abstract theory that is entirely untestable.




As the theory advances there inevitably will be experiments the outcome of which can be predicted with this theory over all others, if it is indeed correct. You can't eat the cake when you're still kneading the dough.

Quote:

As far as the fantastic awards you speak of, wouldn't heaven be a state of no craving for reward?




Umm..

Quote:

What will it take to satisfy a meglomaniacal humanity whose power is so great it can fold dimensions at will and have sex with God's mom if it want's to?




You are thinking in terms of personal gratification. Think what we can do for others if we can do so much more ourselves than we can do now.

And as for the "megalomaniac" side of things: Do you feel we should not make use of such higher knowledge if we found it? Like in alchemy, scientific experiments change the experimenter too. We are becoming more and more able to meet our needs, and when personal needs are met emphatic envolvement will increase.

I don't think humanity is megalomaniac, but rather has capabilities beyond our wildest dreams.

Or are you concerned about science and spirituality going hand in hand?


--------------------
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Offlinesupra
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Asante]
    #5866124 - 07/16/06 04:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:

Quote:

It just seems like a radically abstract theory that is entirely untestable.




As the theory advances there inevitably will be experiments the outcome of which can be predicted with this theory over all others, if it is indeed correct. You can't eat the cake when you're still kneading the dough.






if the theory was correct, you COULD eat the cake while still kneading the dough, no?

peace


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: supra]
    #5866145 - 07/16/06 04:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Only if you could apply said theory. :wink:


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Omnicyclion.org
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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: ivi]
    #5866283 - 07/16/06 05:22 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I somewhat agree with this article:

Quote:

Nobel physicist Wolfgang Pauli didn't suffer fools gladly. Fond of calling colleagues' work "wrong" or "completely wrong," he saved his worst epithet for work so sloppy and speculative it is "not even wrong."

That's how mathematician Peter Woit of Columbia University describes string theory. In his book, "Not Even Wrong," published in the U.K. this month and due in the U.S. in September, he calls the theory "a disaster for physics."

. . .

String theory, proponents said, could reconcile quantum mechanics (the physics of subatomic particles) and gravity, the longest-distance force in the universe. That impressed particle physicists no end. In the 1980s, most jumped on the string bandwagon and since then, stringsters have written thousands of papers.

But one thing they haven't done is coax a single prediction from their theory. In fact, "theory" is a misnomer, since unlike general relativity theory or quantum theory, string theory is not a concise set of solvable equations describing the behavior of the physical world. It's more of an idea or a framework.

. . .

That string theory abandoned testable predictions may be its ultimate betrayal of science.





http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articleArchive/jun2006/notevenwrong.php


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OfflineViveka
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Asante]
    #5869186 - 07/17/06 12:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Should a very promising theory be dropped because no proof can be given at the very conception of said theory?




If there's nothing falsifiable or testable or about it can it really even be considered a scientific theory?

Quote:



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as the fantastic awards you speak of, wouldn't heaven be a state of no craving for reward?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Umm..





...

Quote:

You are thinking in terms of personal gratification. Think what we can do for others if we can do so much more ourselves than we can do now.




What others do you speak of? The interstellar downtrodden?

Quote:

We are becoming more and more able to meet our needs, and when personal needs are met emphatic envolvement will increase.




Needs don't exist unless a goal is established. Wait, are you talking about survival needs of human beings? Meeting those doesn't require folding the time-space continuum. The obstacles that currently prevent that are political not metaphysical. What exactly do you mean by "emphatic envolvement"?

Quote:

I don't think humanity is megalomaniac, but rather has capabilities beyond our wildest dreams.



I completely agree about the degree of potential, but I also think megalomania is rampant around the globe. The notions of grand heavenly reward of the followers of most of the world's religions are one basic example. So what would you say would be the ultimate usefulness of the practical application of the as of yet established principles of string theory?

Quote:

Or are you concerned about science and spirituality going hand in hand?


I think it is wonderful if at all possible. I also think the idea of a "grand unified theory of everything" is pretty cool too, but do you think it can actually be conceived using empirical constructs?


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Viveka]
    #5869289 - 07/17/06 01:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe string theory is kind of like a missing piece of a puzzle, one that is there and you can imagine what it looks like. After you find it you see where you were wrong. You might also see where you were right. The problem here might not be that the piece is wrong we just don't know how to put it in place. When you read this stuff it is really fucking far out there to say the least. I mean even conceptualizing of this kind of thing is amazing. Maybe the problem isn't entirely the theory. I mean when scientists needed to test something like what something looks like at 500x magnification or when they were testing ideas about gravity, they were still dealing with forces and mechanics that were relatively familiar. So how do you test this shit? I guess what I am trying to say is maybe you have to wait until you can go to the moon before you test something and we just aren't there yet. So the people that spend their time writing books about how other people are wrong might better spend their time devising experiments to test current models or try to devise a better one to replace our current models. I am not an expert, but from what I've read string theory "followers" seem to boast a fairly amorphous theory. Its not like some one has written down THE string theory and said here it is this is the basis of the universe, deal with it and don't question it. Maybe this stuff wouldn't be all that "radical" if we understood it. Then again, maybe this is the quantum equivalent of "the world is flat". Point being you shouldn't shoot something down because its not within our grasp yet. However skepticism is good but what I am saying is be an agnostic. Saying something is patently absurd isn't being skeptical its just having the opposite belief.


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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: ivi]
    #5876013 - 07/18/06 11:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

whoa


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Cracka_X]
    #5877070 - 07/19/06 09:41 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

multidemensions is fact, proven by linear algebra, its not even a theory, string theory is an attempt to illustrate multidemensions, I don't know if it was an accurate example, in fact it goes beyond 10 demensions , to infinity demensions,

hey that could be a whole different demension, infinity is a complete universe, so infinity demensions is a universe of demensions, or completely demensional, meaning it transends demension, into a whole different concept, they probably don't have a word for it,


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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: capliberty]
    #5931667 - 08/04/06 02:36 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Sweet link, I've been eating up the past couple of shows on Nova on string theory and that flash helped answer some of my questions.  I'm going to have to watch it again though sometime, that is a lot of info for me to absorb in one sitting, especially on a Friday afternoon. :smile:


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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: supra]
    #5932015 - 08/04/06 04:15 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

supra said:
Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:

Quote:

It just seems like a radically abstract theory that is entirely untestable.




As the theory advances there inevitably will be experiments the outcome of which can be predicted with this theory over all others, if it is indeed correct. You can't eat the cake when you're still kneading the dough.






if the theory was correct, you COULD eat the cake while still kneading the dough, no?

peace




Who the hell kneads cake dough? What is cake dough for that matter? Is that some 6th dimensional shit?


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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: daimyo]
    #5932272 - 08/04/06 06:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

cake dough is in the 7th dimension  :rolleyes:

its one of the many outcomes in the 4th dimension ... damn

now I'm gonna go knead me some cheesecake dough


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Offline888
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Viveka]
    #5932287 - 08/04/06 06:10 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

My Theory: Everything Is.


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InvisibleOmnicracker
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: 888]
    #5933046 - 08/04/06 10:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

FLATLAND!!!

i had to read that in 8th grade Geometry class. its not a manual. its a very simple story designed to explain the 3 dimensions to students. it might be a trip to read now, im sure it would seem very light. there are some cool concepts in the book though.

if you have 5 sides, your children will have 6. if you have 6, they have 7. the closer you are to a circle the higher in rank you are.
women are very acute isosolese trianges, almost 2-d, so when they are coming straight on, you can barely see them. so they have to scream all the time that they are moving so that people will get out of the way and not be stabbed. thats funny to think about in human context...
Mr. Square takes a trip to lineland and pointland and is considered a god.

they made a more advanced sequal to this book, called Sphereland


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Viveka]
    #5937624 - 08/06/06 04:41 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

String theory will be falsifiable, eventually. The thing is, the mathematics are so ridiculously complicated, nobody on earth currently has full knowledge of the basic equations, only approximations. That's what all the work on string theory is for. It's not done yet.

There have been times when theory has surpassed experiment, and times, like most of the last century (with quantum mechanics and the standard model of particle physics) when experimental data has surpassed theory. The coin has just been flipped, now theory is face-up.

Also, the model doesn't really align with mystical ways of thinking. Most who say that simply lack a basic (not even mathematical) understanding of quantum mechanics/string theory. (I would know, I thought along these lines for a while too. Then I read more on it.)

Science doesn't go out the window because something isn't falsifiable now.

Here's an interesting prediction that string theory makes: Gravity. No theory we have now "predicts" (postdicts, really) gravity. General relativity explains it, but it says nothing about why it should exist on a quantum level. (more specifically, string theory requires a spin-2 massless force-carrying particle, the graviton) This is not proof of string theory, but evidence in it's favor.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


Edited by Xanthas (08/06/06 09:18 PM)


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Offlinejungjedi
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Xanthas]
    #5938425 - 08/06/06 09:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

thats bjust weird.from what i know calibi yule space exists in 11 dimentinions in bosonic space and 26 in fermionic space.ANS-NO- spacetime isntnt stacked neetlty upon itself.i cant believe anybody woud buy into this website.this is tarded..did yall know HEAT IS A DEMENTIONas in area is definened as its heat capacity.thats what stephen b. hawkinkings and roger r. penrose say. Hawking also contributed to the idea of imaginary time. This sort of time is somewhat related to the idea of imaginary numbers (multiples of the square root of -1). In this realm of thought and existence, he has theorized that the universe would have no boundaries. Hawking has also had an interest in the classification of gravitational waves. These waves can help physicists and astronomers identify when and where stellar events occur. These waves can also give the scientific community idea of what the initial conditions of the universe were. A constant has also been named for him in the equation S = kA, where S is the heat capacity of a black hole, A is the area, and k is Hawking's Constant. Hawking has theorized that the arrow of time can only point in one direction which is forward. Two more postulates that Hawking has formulated include wormholes and baby universes. He theorizes that only subatomic particles can travel through wormholes to alternate universes, if they in fact exist. Baby universes are another modification of the Big Bang Theory in that after the explosion many different universes were created like bubbles. Also, each bubble has the ability to create another baby universe. Both Hawking and Kip Thorne have theorized that a singularity exists in the interior of a black hole. He has also been able to modify the laws of thermodynamics into the laws of black holes with the addition that the entropy of any given black hole is directly proportional to the surface area. Stephen Hawking is obviously the greatest theoretical physicist of the modern era and perhaps of all time because of his work with the properties of space, time, and relativity............BOOOBIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Edited by jungjedi (08/07/06 12:46 AM)


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InvisibleColonel Kurtz Ph.D
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Omnicracker]
    #5940800 - 08/07/06 01:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Here is a link for Flatland, I couldn't find one for sphereland tho.
It's the entire text with ilustrations:
Flatland


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:whatwhat:

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InvisibleMystikMushroom
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: RuNE]
    #5942466 - 08/07/06 10:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RuNE said:
Quote:

so we're basically all just one single point which contains all there is/was/ever will be?




I've been telling ppl that ever since my ego loss trip a few years back. All time is at one point. Which incidentaly means all matter in our universe is everywhere at the same time.




Yup Yup, the 7th dimension for me (thats where I assume I went on my ego-loss trip) is where I was shown how all points in this universe are co-existing. I also understood the infinite levels of macro/microcosm above and below.

Just think, there might be creatures or entities that exist in lower/higher dimensions that can't see us, or we can't see them!

Might make "shadow people", ghosts, and aliens a little more belivable. Warping space/time to enter a higher dimension (and bypass the speed of light issue) seems like a more reasonable explaination for much of the paranormal.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: ivi]
    #5942757 - 08/07/06 11:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The line 'is' a circle, seen from aside.. :P


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OfflineSinthetic
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Gomp]
    #5947070 - 08/09/06 11:09 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Now for the scariest thought ever. The US government with the ability to fold space.


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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: ivi]
    #5948108 - 08/09/06 05:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Sweet animation! I've had trouble understanding things like this before, but this flash really layed things out in an easy way. Wonderful!


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OfflineCepheus
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #5948167 - 08/09/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I Fold space regularly.

Ever had deja vu ? :cool:


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Offlinenonoman
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: ivi]
    #5956046 - 08/12/06 10:35 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That was great, thanks!


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Imagining the Tenth Dimension (Flash) [Re: ivi]
    #5956424 - 08/12/06 12:51 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

:eek:


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