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STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions
    #10662060 -

Hello Shroomery,

I'm quite sure this is stroma eh?




A FOAF is doing a grow with his PESA strain cloned from a previous multispore grow.  The petri dish of the clone was stored in a mini fridge that hangs around 40 degrees F (sometimes a bit above, sometimes a bit below) for about 8 months.  Weird part is he made just two, only rye grain casings, cased with organic jiffy mix (sterilized unfortunately and not pasteurized): One with 4 quart jars (the thicker casing on the left in the pic below) with about 1/2 inch or less of jiffy on top; and the other with 2 quart jars (the one with stroma) cased with about 1/4 inch or less of jiffy.



Tomorrow will be two weeks since birthing from jars.  They were incubated for one day at around 80 degrees and then put directly into the fruiting chamber (a Martha with just a Vick's cool mist inside running 24/7; she (Martha) is unzipped at the top with another opening in the bottom that was cut with a knife for extra air flow). They were both lightly patched after incubating and the casing in question was actually patched a few times.  The areas that were patched were seemingly the areas that developed the dense growth.

Humidity is nice and high (always in the 90+ range) and FAE has to be excellent because Martha is partly open all the time.  They were heavily misted to near saturation for 3 days once cased (there are drainage holes in the bottom)..light mistings continue to date to keep the near saturation appearance.

Questions:  Why did this happen to the thinner casing and not the other one?  What causes Stroma?  I am still unsure after searching the forums.  Shroomery glossary states: "Dense mycelial growth without fruiting. Stroma occurs if spawn is mishandled or exposed to harmful petroleum-based fumes or chemicals. It also occurs in dry environments."  Lysol was sprayed a few times here and there in the room before doing sterile work in a glovebox.  My foaf is pretty sure that other than that neither the spawn nor the casings have ever had direct contact with fumes or chemicals and he is sure his environment is never too dry.  Will it still fruit in the areas that don't look too bad?  Is this a sign of what Stamets calls "senescing," when mycelium gets old?  Possibly because of storage in the mini fridge?  8 months in a fridge does not seem that old and the cloned mushroom was only grown out onto one or two petri dishes before re-using it again for this grow.

Thanks so much for any input.  There may be more questions but will post later.


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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #10662089 -

It sure is! No senescing going on there yet, IME I'd say some of that is a result on continued sectoring and a true stroma based substrain was the result. If you don't mind I'd love to add one one of those pics to my overlay thread. Thank you
There are a few causes other than chemical or overly dry conditions that can lead to overlay BTW.


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Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions [Re: hyphae]
    #10662137 -

hyphae - thanks for the quick reply!  I knew it couldn't have been senescing because it is pretty young mycelium.  I was unaware of the fact that a cloned culture was still capable of sectoring.  I had previously thought that that was a process of singling out substrains from multispore inoculations.  Now that you've mentioned this, I remember seeing the culture plates and noticing that a section of them showed different growth (but not very different) from the rest of the plate.  Will continued isolation of the better parts of the plate remove this sectoring from the genetics?
Thanks again.


--------------------
:wizard::scaryshroom:

My Trade List

"After a good meal and a good pipe, George felt very tired."

Edited by CuriousGeorge83 (07/12/09 10:30 AM)

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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #10662140 -

by the way, go ahead and take any pictures you want! glad to be of some help.


--------------------
:wizard::scaryshroom:

My Trade List

"After a good meal and a good pipe, George felt very tired."

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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #10665261 -

CuriousGeorge83 said:
hyphae - thanks for the quick reply!  I knew it couldn't have been senescing because it is pretty young mycelium.  I was unaware of the fact that a cloned culture was still capable of sectoring.  I had previously thought that that was a process of singling out substrains from multispore inoculations.  Now that you've mentioned this, I remember seeing the culture plates and noticing that a section of them showed different growth (but not very different) from the rest of the plate.  Will continued isolation of the better parts of the plate remove this sectoring from the genetics?
Thanks again.


Was this a clone or isolate? Yes further isolation will provide a truly pure isolate this isn't always as easy as it seems.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions [Re: hyphae]
    #10669631 -

hyphae - it is a clone.  does this mean further isolations are not possible because it is a pure strain?  The other casing (the one on the left in the pic above) is pinning now.  I find this so very odd.  Both casings consist of 6 quart jars total (One full agar plate of the clone divided up into the 6 jars).  4 jars for the one on the left...2 for the one that has stroma.  The only thing I can think of is that the 2 jars that were used for the casing with stroma just so happened to be from parts of the plate the showed potential sectoring (but again, is sectoring even possible with cloned mushroom mycelium?)


--------------------
:wizard::scaryshroom:

My Trade List

"After a good meal and a good pipe, George felt very tired."

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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #10671413 -

CuriousGeorge83 said:
hyphae - it is a clone.  does this mean further isolations are not possible because it is a pure strain?  The other casing (the one on the left in the pic above) is pinning now.  I find this so very odd.  Both casings consist of 6 quart jars total (One full agar plate of the clone divided up into the 6 jars).  4 jars for the one on the left...2 for the one that has stroma.  The only thing I can think of is that the 2 jars that were used for the casing with stroma just so happened to be from parts of the plate the showed potential sectoring (but again, is sectoring even possible with cloned mushroom mycelium?)


From what I understand tissue from a fruit body should be pure but when place on new substrate or even changing substrates can cause sectoring to occur. I had isolated a stroma substrain years back it would run a qt jar in 3days I was so excited until I fruited them or should I say tried every one grew thick rubbery mats in record time what a disappointment!


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions [Re: hyphae]
    #10671431 -

That looks a lot more like trichoderma than stroma to me.  I suspect you'll be seeing green soon.  One way to tell early is to scratch it and take a sniff.  If it smells like mushroom tissue, it's stroma.  If it smells like dirt, it's trich.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions [Re: hyphae]
    #10671432 -

good to know hyphae...thanks for all your input


--------------------
:wizard::scaryshroom:

My Trade List

"After a good meal and a good pipe, George felt very tired."

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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10671563 -

RogerRabbit said:
That looks a lot more like trichoderma than stroma to me.  I suspect you'll be seeing green soon.  One way to tell early is to scratch it and take a sniff.  If it smells like mushroom tissue, it's stroma.  If it smells like dirt, it's trich.
RR


Good test alright but trich forms circular round spheres from what I've seen I mean that's a growth characteristic. I've had stroma that has looked exactly like that except it covered the entire surface. Trich isn't rubbery like stroma either. But like you said scratch-n-sniff will tell the tale! It could very well be trich too from a closer look and the fact my stroma was very white not yellowed this is the stage before green with trich.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions [Re: hyphae]
    #10677935 -

RR - I'm pretty sure it is in fact stroma, or some other kind of demented vegetative overgrowth.  Doesn't trich turn green somewhat quickly?  The beginning of this weird growth has been happening for just about a week now (several days before my first post) and it has not shown green spores yet.  It smells incredibly mushroomy, not soil like; and has only faded out to a mellow yellow shade in its thickest spots (hyphae - I don't think I've ever noticed a yellowing before the onset of green with trich before..though if this is true, I may have just never really noticed it).  Also, If one looks closely at these clumps its almost as if you can see little rhizomorphs standing out on top of them.  Unfortunately I could not get a detailed enough pic to really see this but here is the casing to date:



AND, best of all...there's even primordia! --one little guy coming out of a spot where exposed casing still exists (near center of next photo - u can even just barely make it out in the upper right hand corner in the pic above too).



I'll keep updating with pics as time continues...the other casing on the left from the pic in my first post is beginning to pin nicely BTW...more on that later


--------------------
:wizard::scaryshroom:

My Trade List

"After a good meal and a good pipe, George felt very tired."

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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #10677942 -

YAY!!! maybe you atleast get 1 flush out of it. good luck!


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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #10678008 -

The first race that I ever grew out was pesa from T.H.E., and I noticed this type of thing happening quite often. That shit will really turn yellow/tan before it is over with, nothing to worry about.

You should get a decent enough flush or 5 out of it. :wink:


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KRAMER CAKES



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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions [Re: george castanza]
    #10678020 -

If it smells mushroomy, that pretty much rules out trich.  Good luck with it.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10682844 -

awesome, thanks everyone


--------------------
:wizard::scaryshroom:

My Trade List

"After a good meal and a good pipe, George felt very tired."

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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions (UPDATE! 7/17/09) [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #10694947 -

So that shit had to go outside 'cause it was becoming a friggin mad house for fungus gnats...That one little mushroom is still growin though..think it'll do alright out on a shady porch?  Pretty humid and rainy out these days here..





Are fungus gnats a huge threat for future contams?? Or is it not soo bad?

The other casing is doing just fine..Not too impressed with pinset around the middle, but guessin' that'll be the areas for 2nd flush?



--------------------
:wizard::scaryshroom:

My Trade List

"After a good meal and a good pipe, George felt very tired."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions (UPDATE! 7/17/09) [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #10695332 -

:blueninja:

so can you harvest that like normal?

dry it, and have a bunch of philosopher stone like nuggets?


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"The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."

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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions (UPDATE! 7/17/09) [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #10695401 -

CuriousGeorge83 said:
So that shit had to go outside 'cause it was becoming a friggin mad house for fungus gnats...That one little mushroom is still growin though..think it'll do alright out on a shady porch?  Pretty humid and rainy out these days here..





Are fungus gnats a huge threat for future contams?? Or is it not soo bad?

The other casing is doing just fine..Not too impressed with pinset around the middle, but guessin' that'll be the areas for 2nd flush?




I see that a lot (pinning around the edges) this is caused by an uneven substrate and/or an uneven casing layer. That cased sub looks very good moisture level looks good too but can't say for sure keeping it at near saturation when you mist?


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions (UPDATE! 7/17/09) [Re: hyphae]
    #10695450 -

I have had the fungal blobs happen quite a few times so far...  So when this happen's is it still cool to eat, as long as it's not Trich or something?


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Re: STROMA!! A Perfect Example (pics) - and some questions (UPDATE! 7/17/09) [Re: wasting_space]
    #10695470 -

wasting_space said:
I have had the fungal blobs happen quite a few times so far...  So when this happen's is it still cool to eat, as long as it's not Trich or something?


Fungal blobs leaves a lot to be interpreted. Some mold infection result in inedible fruits.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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