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Re: Jailbait! [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10664846 -

Basic concepts =/ the consequences of childbirth

Understanding that what you have goes to another person does not at all entail understanding how that effects your life. Emotionally nor really even the full extent of it financially. Until you start actually paying your own bills, and living by your own means, I don't think you can fully appreciate what that loss of income is like. To what are you comparing it? A loss of allowance? Computer time?

That won't make it seem trivial at all.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10665301 -

It's probable that facts never changed your mind before.  If you want to have sexual contact with a child, do whatever you want. It's well known that those molested as a child, end up as molesters. You may argue the points I have made here, but someday you may understand. :peace:

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: Icelander]
    #10665331 -

Icelander said:
MushroomTrip said:
No, it's not pictures of young hot girls. :naughty:

I was wondering what everyone's opinions on being attracted and wanting to have sex with people who are younger than the legal age of consent are. I think that it's rater stupid and delusional to think that people should have a certain age in order to be able to decide if they want to have sex or not, and with whom. As long as the sexual act is consented by all the parties involved, why should the legal system have any word to say in this, why should the society label it as wrong, and why should the parents want to protect their underage kids from pleasure? :crazy2:

Maybe if people would stop being so ridiculous on their approach to sex and sex education, then they would actually have more chances to enjoy it and they would stop feeling so guilty from something so enjoyable and fun like sex.



:thumbup: Hue may have something to say about this. This thread is where our friendship began.:lol:


I don't have kids I am raising this time, so I don't much give a shit now. I do vaguely remember that I may have threatened your existence with a shotgun. I didn't have a gun, I am not much of a believer in owning guns for violence...wasn't then either, but it was fun to wield my imaginary one.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10665361 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Hue may have something to say about this. This thread is where our friendship began.


Fellow sex registrars have to stick together.


Why do you think I moved out west? I got tired of my face being plastered all over those web sites for my neighbors to see.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #10665405 -

C.M. Mann said:
Sexual contact is not just a pleasurable act, it comes with psychological and legal responsibilities. A child's mind is not capable of the complex social implications. They don't understand why something that feels so good, could also complicate their future possibilities. After a couple thousand years we finally can see that most children involved in sexual contact, have damaged their psychological health.  In my opinion people that have sex with children are sick.




You've ignored the relevant question- what are children?



Quote:
it comes with psychological and legal responsibilities.



huh?  Like what?  And so what?




---

I'm releaved nobody has used some "its natural" or "its biological" as a defense.  I never got these claims.  It seems entirely irrelevant to me, and just a stupid defense for antisocial conduct.

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #10665771 -

C.M. Mann said:
It's well known that those molested as a child, end up as molesters.


Actually I have found people who have been sexually abused seem to prefer to come to me to talk about it. I have no experience with it and I'm not in to that sort of psychology, so it bugs me to no end, but I'm not a dick about it to their face. I can say that IME these people are not future abusers.

Don't believe me? I've seen quite a few pro psychologists brake this up, one on a CBC docu about the InSite facility and another on a recent PBS episode about a California psyc ward for serial sex offenders. Both the psychologists who deal with sexual abuse cases(InSite) and sexual assaulter cases(psyc ward) on a day to day basis said there's no fucking connection, abused are not fated to become abusers.

So... I might ask you where you got your data on the subject?


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

Edited by ScavengerType (07/12/09 11:02 PM)

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: johnm214]
    #10665777 -

Mr. Johnm214, I think it is obvious what a child is. A legal determination is difficult because some mature faster, but I think eighteen is a good choice as the barrier. Children deserve all the protection that anyone else gets. And if you don't understand the immense psychological damage from being molested ,raped,enslaved,beaten, or having to abort a child, then nothing I say will help your empathy towards others. An existential Bohemian lifestyle may be chic, but it comes with hidden danger.

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10665839 -

You are wrong, check your facts again. This time no TV.  I do have experience in this area, and I care about these victims. You have personally experienced these peoples pain, you should understand the implications of this type of behaviour.

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #10665853 -

C.M.Mann nobody here has advocated non-consensual acts and only one person here (the OP) has even said that there doesn't seem to be an age limit tho which you can attach the concept of being able to consent. So I think your calling out to a straw man in your arguements.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #10665880 -

C.M. Mann said:
You are wrong, check your facts again. This time no TV.  I do have experience in this area, and I care about these victims. You have personally experienced these peoples pain, you should understand the implications of this type of behavior.


But I do, and I gave you two sources who are professional psychologists and the institutions where they practice from both sides of the spectrum (though I don't know the name of the CA psyc ward), that they said it on TV makes no difference what so ever. Perhaps if you are the one purporting the point you would like to furnish the debate with some facts if you dislike mine.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10665918 -

Why not make it legal to  have sex with babies.  By your logic, age being no valid indicator, any baby who wishes to fuck a grown man ought to be able to do so legally as long as the baby is old enough to say "yes"

What's the difference between a 2 year old that doesn't know what it's doing and a 13 year old that doesn't know what its doing?

Maybe they ought to have a grown-up-fucking aptitude test...

Edited by xFrockx (07/12/09 11:27 PM)

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: xFrockx]
    #10665961 -

Finally some sanity! :peace:

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #10666092 -

C.M. Mann said:
Mr. Johnm214, I think it is obvious what a child is. A legal determination is difficult because some mature faster, but I think eighteen is a good choice as the barrier. Children deserve all the protection that anyone else gets. And if you don't understand the immense psychological damage from being molested ,raped,enslaved,beaten, or having to abort a child, then nothing I say will help your empathy towards others. An existential Bohemian lifestyle may be chic, but it comes with hidden danger.



So you want more people in jail, or at least to criminalize more conduct?  Is there some problem with the current age of consent laws that your seeking to remedy?  What are they?


And wtf are you talking about with empathy?  WTF are you talkinga bout with rape, slavery, beatings, and abortions?



Your presumptions are way out of line, and fallacious as all hell.  Make a relevant point, and keep your bullshit insinuations to your self.


xFrockx said:
Why not make it legal to  have sex with babies.  By your logic, age being no valid indicator, any baby who wishes to fuck a grown man ought to be able to do so legally as long as the baby is old enough to say "yes"

What's the difference between a 2 year old that doesn't know what it's doing and a 13 year old that doesn't know what its doing?

Maybe they ought to have a grown-up-fucking aptitude test...




There's little difference between those two.



Your claim that mushroomtrip has some verbal test for appropriate sexual conduct seems wholly unsupportable to me.


Is this just mindless rhetoric, or can you actually show that she claimed the ability to say a word is sufficient to demonstrate consent and proper consideration on the part of the minor?



So far as I can see, your just making sensational claims that have nothing at all to do with what she said and expressly contradict her statements. 


Either you need to show how your claim is a consequence of her argument or you need to retract your ridiculous deduction.

Edited by johnm214 (07/12/09 11:56 PM)

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #10666197 -

"There's little difference between those two."

A few years, yes, but the amount of wisdom is around the same.  Asking a child to make a good decision for themselves in the face of adults who might be trying to subtly manipulate them, adults who they would normally look to for the very guidance they need to make good decisions, is like asking a team of cripples to play rugby without wheelchairs against the New Zealand national team.

"Your claim that mushroomtrip has some verbal test for appropriate sexual conduct seems wholly unsupportable to me."

That was a joke.

"Is this just mindless rhetoric, or can you actually show that she claimed the ability to say a word is sufficient to demonstrate consent and proper consideration on the part of the minor?"

I was demonstrating the fact that a very young child has impaired decision making capability, through no fault of their own, and that slightly older children, 13 for example, might have about the same level of knowledge when it comes to whether it is a good decision to have sex with a person much older than them, who might be viewed as a role model.  From a purely hedonistic standpoint, yes, its fun all around I suppose, but from a realistic standpoint its probably better for society to not consider sex as pure recreation.  After all, it has consequences.  Like other forms of recreation that has consequences along the lines of sex, some are adequately self-informed on the nature of their own mortality, economic goals, educational goals, ect. in relation to the potential effect of their behavior, while others are not.  I don't think its controversial to say that this awareness of oneself is a gradual building process, one which never really ends.  So, in short, my greater point was that, age can be a guideline that is easy and, for the most part, effective.  The joke about the aptitude test was aimed there, because that would be a costly and beaurocratic alternative.

"Either you need to show how your claim is a consequence of her argument or you need to retract your ridiculous deduction."

You need to stop using so many spaces between the lines of your post, its arrogant.

Edited by xFrockx (07/13/09 12:15 AM)

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10666215 -

Oh stop it! You know perfectly well why NOT to touch a body whose mind is lagging behind developmentally. Are you just trying to smoke out pedophiles and ephebophiles? Even those joking about it in their responses - closet pedophiles - are gonna be smoked out but their 'humorous' responses (Freud's Jokes and Their Relation to the Unconscious, 1905). What's up with this, or is your question a veiled inquiry into a personal childhood violation? :eek: Surely, questions like this don't arise from mild curiosity, given the scope of curiosity. PM response maybe?

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #10666376 -

Markos
That's a pretty severe response.
I find that this topic comes up again and again on these [shroomery] forums, and often times I don't think the curiosity into the matter goes any deeper than exploring the way sexuality is taboo when it is first, developmentally speaking, experienced.

I think it's natural to have a curiosity about the reasons why. Particularly with the way sex is so predominant in advertising and television. Why should it be snuffed at when you experience that drive, regardless of age.

Freud himself explored this issue, why shouldn't we?

p.s. I see shades of grey in where the emphasis is placed in such a discussion, but none of those shades are compelling enough for me to draw any conclusions.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Edited by Kickle (07/13/09 01:03 AM)

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: johnm214]
    #10666430 -

Coming to terms with oneself can bring about anger and frustration!  If an adult has sexual contact with a child, that is rape! If they "persuade" them to some other location, that's kidnapping!  Do you think that a child always consents, many adults are violent and take what they want. I am not talking about two little kids messing around, I am talking about adults who are unbalanced and their sexual ego is out of control. We are not sexual beings, we are cerebral beings who can reproduce. A society that is sexually over stimulated, always degenerates into chaos. And yes there should be many more people in prison!  I say let all of the drug convictions go, and put all of the child molesters in!

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #10666732 -

so if I understand your reasoning, when I was twenty and I had a 15 year old girlfriend I wasn't taking her out to the pot smoking locale as she requested so that we could smoke pot and fuck. I was apparently kidnapping her abetting her in drug consumption or forcing her to consume (I mean I did pass her the pipe without asking "do you consent to this toke") then I raped her in the back of my volvo even though she seemed to be enjoying it. Well life lesson learned.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10667203 -

I think this is the same as with drugs...

You won't stop kids experimenting, so you should concentrate on making it safe, with education and culture.

my 2c.


--------------------
So dreaming let's you know reality exists.



I don't belive. I fear.

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Re: Jailbait! [Re: Kickle]
    #10667295 -

xFrockx said:
Why not make it legal to  have sex with babies.  By your logic, age being no valid indicator, any baby who wishes to fuck a grown man ought to be able to do so legally as long as the baby is old enough to say "yes"

What's the difference between a 2 year old that doesn't know what it's doing and a 13 year old that doesn't know what its doing?



C.M. Mann said:
Finally some sanity! :peace:


How is someone who can't understand the basic fact that a baby is not a sexually-developing human being finally bringing some sanity to the discussion? :rofl2:

The difference between a person too young to have sex as we commonly define it (no, a 40-year old sticking his cock in a two-year old's butt isn't sex :rolleyes:) and one that is actually capable of having sex and of enjoying it is obvious. That you're celebrating something completely irrelevant to the topic as sane might help suggest some errors in your own perspective on the matter. :wink:

Kickle said:
So the girls are either going to have to be uncharacteristically hard assed and make the guy wear one, or they're going to have to take on the responsibility of remembering to take the pill every day.

It just doesn't seem developmentally appropriate to assign so much responsibility at such a young age.


"So much responsibility?" I don't understand why it isn't "developmentally appropriate" to help beings be responsible for an aspect of themselves which has already come to play. The only reason it might be difficult for such a child to assume as much responsibility is because of the lack of helping them to assume this responsibility. Its not like it is hard. They are already experiencing the physical and mental effects of their sexuality. They know the feelings and they understand in which context they are arising (from their own thoughts or touches to the feelings they have when they are interacting with other humans). All they need to know is a little more on how to ensure that they are being safe in how they are forming sexual relations if it happens that they do, to avoid the potential physical consequences of having sex (are you telling me an eight-year old hasn't had colds and hence had shots or medication, or hasn't seen a baby before?), and to be capable of not being confused in their feelings so that they get manipulated or abused.

It really isn't complex. There's only the illusion of complexity because of how much failure there is to approach the matter in a rational, natural way. The solution simplifies the matter regardless of that failure, however. :shrug:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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