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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother
    #10370548 -

http://www.smh.com.au/world/boy-who-refuses-cancer-treatment-flees-with-mother-20090521-bfwt.html
Quote:

A 13-year-old boy who has refused treatment for cancer because of religious objections was on the run with his mother on Wednesday after a US judge ordered his parents to take him to a doctor.

Judge John Rodenberg issued an arrest warrant for the boy's mother after they failed to appear in a Minnesota court on Tuesday.

He also ordered that the boy, Daniel Hauser, be placed in foster care and evaluated by an oncologist as soon as he was found.

Hauser was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma in January and received just one round of chemotherapy and radiation therapy before his parents put him on an alternative treatment that included herbs and vitamins.

The boy's doctor called child welfare authorities when Hauser did not return for treatment in February.

The boy's mother, Colleen Hauser, testified at a May 8 hearing that the family considers chemotherapy a potentially fatal poison, and its use violates their religious beliefs.

The boy's father, Anthony Hauser, testified on Tuesday that he last spoke to his wife at about 4pm on Monday while he was milking cows on the family's farm.

She told him she was going to leave and "that's all you need to know," Hauser testified.

The boy's doctors have testified that he will likely die within five years without treatment. Chemotherapy and radiation would increase his chance of survival to 80 to 95 per cent.

A court-ordered chest X-ray showed that while the first round of treatment helped destroy some of the cancer, it has now grown back to its original size. A medical report noted a "significant worsening" of Hauser's tumour in the past week.

Minnesota law requires parents to provide their children with medically necessary care.



I can understand that parents need to make many decisions about their children, but where do you draw the line? Arguably, what the mother in this article is doing amounts to homicide, just in slow-motion. Religion should not decide whether someone lives or dies.

Thoughts?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: zouden]
    #10370568 -

Religion should not decide such issues, but hasn't it decided for centuries in this and other arenas?

Religion... always throwing science under the bus.


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: dill705]
    #10370595 -

his mom looks like joe pesci


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:deemsters:

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: dill705]
    #10370622 -

The boy refused treatment.

It's illogical but none of your business.

This is his life not ours, he has made a decision misguided maybe but who are we to force treatment upon someone.

I understand he is a minor, and his parents are likely influencing his thoughts however there is no proof that he didnt suggest this.

I dont see it necessary or acceptable for the government to step in.

My 2 cents.


--------------------
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser



Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: dill705]
    #10370637 -

It's no coincidence that today on the Alex Jones show they had this:

Quote:
Alex talks with Diane Miller, attorney and director of the National Health Freedom Coalition. Miller is currently working as an attorney on the case of a 13-year-old cancer patient in Minnesota who was ordered by a judge to take chemotherapy. Alex also covers the important news stories of the day and takes your calls.



Now, the boy himself has refused the treatment, and I don't blaim him. Some of you might find it insane to refuse radio/chemotherapy, but I've seen firsthand what it does, to my mother, and with a friend of mine, who's now cancer free.

My mother is on a lifetime course of hormone blocking zoladex and is suffering osteoporosis, her immune system is ziltch, whilst my friend, despite other faults, is fine physically.

She refused chemotherapy, they gave her 18 months to live without it back in 2003. She's still alive and kicking.

I hope this kid survives his cancer, and I hope he, amongst many others, get clued up real fast on cancer treatments. There are alternatives to cutting, burning or poisoning it out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7722626.stm

Quote:
Doctors 'rely on chemo too much'

Doctors are being urged to re-think their approach to giving chemotherapy during care at the end of life.

A review of 600 cancer patients who died within 30 days of treatment found that in more than a quarter of cases it actually hastened or caused death.

The report by the National Confidential Enquiry into Patient Outcome and Death said doctors should consider reducing doses or not using chemotherapy at all.

England's cancer tsar Professor Mike Richards said he was "very concerned".

The group of patients the independent group was looking at represents 2% of the 80,000 people who receive chemotherapy each year.

“ This report provides very disturbing information about the safety of treatment for incurable cancer ”
Professor Jane Maher, of Macmillan Cancer Support

They were all severely-ill patients for which the chemotherapy was mostly being used to manage their condition rather than in an attempt to cure the cancer.

After examining case notes, the group said that 35% of patients received good care.

But it found that in 27% of cases it hastened or caused death - the toxic nature of the treatment can lead to a range of problems, the most serious of which is an infection called neutropenic sepsis.

Report co-author Dr Diana Mort said doctors should be more "cautious in prescribing chemotherapy for very sick patients".

And she added: "The process of consent may require more than one discussion.

"Patients must be made aware of the risks and side-effect of chemotherapy as well as the potential benefits."

Transfer arrangements

The report also criticised the facilities made available to patients with nearly half being admitted to general medicine wards during the last 30 days of life rather than a specialist cancer unit.

The authors recommended where hospitals did not have specialist units they should put in place transfer arrangements to centres that did.

Professor Jane Maher, chief medical officer at Macmillan Cancer Support, said: "This report provides very disturbing information about the safety of treatment for incurable cancer.

"It shows that doctors and nurses need to be much better at helping patients understand the pros and cons of such powerful treatments in the last year of life."

Professor Richards said he was "very concerned".

"I am asking all chemotherapy service providers to consider these reports urgently and to reassess their own services immediately against the measures we have set nationally."

But Dr Peter Clark, of the Royal College of Physicians, said while lessons could be learnt it was important to remember that chemotherapy carried "substantial short and long-term benefit" for the majority who undergo the treatment.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/health/7722626.stm





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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: awesomebastard]
    #10370666 -

Quote:
I dont see it necessary or acceptable for the government to step in.



Why not?
The mother is obviously irrational and has a negative influence on her underage son, so why shouldn't the govt intervene? It's the same old case of unfit parents, and legally (and also realistically, at least in this case, he lacks discernment) the kid isn't legal of age.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: awesomebastard]
    #10370673 -

What if the boy was six years old? Or ten? If a little kid says "I don't want to take my medicine, it's yucky" no reasonable person would say, "oh he's made his choice, we can't intervene". You can only say that if you have reason to believe he's made a fully-informed decision. The same would apply to a 14-year-old, I think. That's why he's considered a minor until 18.

In this case, the mother has stated that they are objecting to the medicine on religious grounds. Not medical grounds. I think that's irrational.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10370699 -

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
I dont see it necessary or acceptable for the government to step in.



Why not?
The mother is obviously irrational and has a negative influence on her underage son, so why shouldn't the govt intervene? It's the same old case of unfit parents, and legally (and also realistically, at least in this case, he lacks discernment) the kid isn't legal of age.



Well like I stated in my post.

"The boy who refused treatment"

His decision, not his mothers.

Also legal age of discernment?
LOL.
Seriously?

That is total bullshit, there is no such thing it is a completely fabricated standard and you know it.

I was completely self aware as a child, and just because I was a child did not mean that my decisions had any less thought behind them.

Perhaps he is undereducated but I'm sure the doctors explained chemo to him.

To tell you the truth I dont blame him one bit, I would refuse chemo as well.


--------------------
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser



Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: zouden]
    #10370758 -

zouden said:
I think that's irrational.



Humans are irrational creatures.


--------------------
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser



Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: awesomebastard]
    #10370780 -

But what do you think about my question? Would you say the same thing if the boy was six?

>Humans are irrational creatures.

Actually we're usually pretty rational. We make rational decisions based upon what we know. If what we know is wrong, then those decisions appear irrational to others. I think they've made an irrational decision, but the boy and the mother probably still think it's perfectly rational to refuse treatment because God doesn't like it.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: zouden]
    #10370805 -

Ya, I dont think it's any of the governments business.

So the decision was rational?

Your saying that since popular opinion is opposing the families that that makes their decision wrong?


--------------------
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser



Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: awesomebastard]
    #10370836 -

Well, yeah. I mean in England it's common for Muslim men to kill their daughters because they dress inappropriately (Honour killings). For them it's rational because Allah says so, but popular opinion disagrees. What do you think?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: awesomebastard]
    #10370862 -

So do you apply the same logic to sex?  As long as a child says they consented, even without knowledge of what the decision means, they should be no legal recourse?

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: awesomebastard]
    #10370867 -

awesomebastard said:
The boy refused treatment.

It's illogical but none of your business.

This is his life not ours, he has made a decision misguided maybe but who are we to force treatment upon someone.

I understand he is a minor, and his parents are likely influencing his thoughts however there is no proof that he didnt suggest this.

I dont see it necessary or acceptable for the government to step in.

My 2 cents.



I completely agree.
Although this can be a very interesting topic for discussion , i really see no way of adding anything but your 2 cents.

Nice thread

:thumbup:


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---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: awesomebastard]
    #10370877 -

yeah, I think this is the same thing as forcing Shock therapy on someone because some judge has a hair up his ass about whats best for some kid he only read about.

Quote:
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.



  -C. S. Lewis

the issue isnt whether or not chemo works, or is better than whichever herb or vegetable the Channel 10 news says works. This is clearly an infringement upon personal freedom.
these exact same people that are all gung ho about forcing chemotherapy are probably the same people that (like most sane individuals) finds it laughable that it is illegal to commit suicide.
I believe that within the context of the right to the pursuit of happiness should come the constitutional interpretation of the right to do with yourself whatever you wish (as long as it doesnt infringe upon anyone else right to the pursuit of happiness and perceived wellness).

regardless of whether or not you think this kid has been duped by religion, it is his belief and wishes to remain un-radiated and to do so would be one of the sickest forms of torture.

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: jivJaN]
    #10370892 -

jivJaN said:
Nice thread

:thumbup:



Thanks. I thought it would make a nice change from all the talk about evolution.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: zouden]
    #10370896 -

Well you claimed that it was an irrational decision.

And I think that a father murdering his daughter is completely different from this.

It's a rather large leap like comparing it to mothers that feed their children Mcdonalds on the daily.

The child is thirteen, old enough to know more than "medicine is yucky".

His decision is the result of deep belief, which I respect although I dont agree at all.

Like I said his life not yours, he is not killing people or pushing his beliefs on you he is just doing what he feels is right.


--------------------
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser



Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #10371005 -

Quote:
She refused chemotherapy, they gave her 18 months to live without it back in 2003. She's still alive and kicking.



If you can't pay your bills, they give you longer to live. :rimshot:


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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: Redstorm]
    #10371088 -

zouden said:
What if the boy was six years old? Or ten? If a little kid says "I don't want to take my medicine, it's yucky" no reasonable person would say, "oh he's made his choice, we can't intervene". You can only say that if you have reason to believe he's made a fully-informed decision. The same would apply to a 14-year-old, I think. That's why he's considered a minor until 18.

In this case, the mother has stated that they are objecting to the medicine on religious grounds. Not medical grounds. I think that's irrational.






What does the mother's beliefs have to do with anything?  People were claiming the kid had the right, not the mother.


And I fail to see the relevance of the fact that at 18 some rights are given, so what? 


Forcing a person who's made an informed decision to subject to something "for their own good" is wrong and illegal.  He has a liberty interest in not being ordered to a hospital and having his body violated which is protected by the constitution.


If he can intelligently state the problem he has, the likely effects of the disease and treatment then he should be free to decline treatment.  The judge, morally, should order him to report to the doctor and face an evaluation and hearing where if he wants to refuse care the state must prove that it was not an unintelligent waiver.


Your appeal to random laws are unconvincing.
Redstorm said:
So do you apply the same logic to sex?  As long as a child says they consented, even without knowledge of what the decision means, they should be no legal recourse?





That's not a valid comparison.  We're talking about consent rather than statutory penalties.  A fourteen year old may allready consent to sex in that state i would imagine, so it doesn't matter.  Whether their is some legal definition of consent that makes the litteral meaning irrelevant when the other partner is over a certain age is irrelevant- laws like that allready recognize that children can and do consent to sex and instead decide that regardless of that the conduct is unacceptable. 



The law allready recognizes consent in people under 18 in all states I'm aware of, so if anything what your driving at reveals the discord between what the state is doing and what is allready in the law.



Do you feel a twelve year old should be charged with rape for sex with another twelve year old as a matter of course?  Of course not if they consented.  The prohibitions on conduct of the older partner attach to the partner, not to the child.  The kid isn't charged, whereas in this case it is the kid who is suffering the loss of his liberty interest that should be protected.


Either way this article sucks ass and doesn't say what the order actually did, so who knows.



EDIT:  Oops, this is in australia, when I mentioned the constitution I was refering to the USA one, so who knows.


Either way my arguments remain.


I'd also like to point out that: a) people bitching about the fact that the religion purportedly motivates his belief have the burden to establish the relevance of this (I think its irrelevant); b) the article regarding chemo being unnecesary or harmful in some cases is allready well known.  I have no idea what hte point of that was.  They said the obvious fact that chemo can hurt yolu means if it can't benefit you signifigantly the net effect will be negative for those who have advanced diseases- something that doesn't apply to this kid.

Edited by johnm214 (05/20/09 05:33 PM)

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Re: Boy who refuses cancer treatment flees with mother [Re: johnm214]
    #10371135 -

Why would God oppose chemotherapy?

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