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OfflineMitchnast
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humans are more like cancer than unlike.
    #4083050 - 04/21/05 11:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

cancer:
releases chemicals into tissue promoting vascular growth to provide nourishment to clusters of growing tumors while draining rescources from the body

humans:
releases chemicals into the environment to promote vegitative growth to provide nourishment to growing populations of people while draining rescources from the land

cancer:
uses chemicals to damage competing tissues that are mutinogenic in nature leading to regenerative malfunction in cells and even reproductive excelleration, resulting in cencerous-like activity in unrelated parts of body, to the demise of the body and cancer that depends on it.

humans:
use chemicals to damage competing organisms that are mutinogenic in nature leading to regenerative malfunction in animals and even reproductive excelleration, resulting in hyper consumptive activity in unrelated eco-systems, to the demise of the lower food chain and humans that depend on it.

cancer: conventional science dictates that cancer cannot spread to other bodies

humans: conventional science still cannot move humans to other planets

cancer: releases waste products into it's environment which are mildly toxic on their own and synergize in combination damaging nourishing tissues and in turn itself.

humans: release waste products into the environment which are toxic in varying levels and are directly and indirectly detrimental to all life on some level. often synergizing in combonation with other toxins and chemically changing from exposure to common catylists and organisms into other forms of toxins which concentrate into dangerous levels cumitively up the food chain. damging food and energy sources and eventually direclty themselves.

cancer: a wild uncontrolled growth inside the body

humans: bodies growing uncontrolled in number

cancer: born from the very body it eventually destroys from a defect in the natural cellular reproduction mechanism, causing endless growth, destroying itself in the process necrotizing when all nourishment is exhasted poisoning healthy tissues with its own rot.

humans: born of the earth and outcompeted natural selection to become the paramount consumer and producer of virulent waste. incresing in number unfettered untill flourishment must be maintained by manipulation of the survival of its surroundings eventually blanching it barren of sustaining principles, cultivating organisms into consumer-dependant strains. causing populations of humans to starve and die, leading to disease and pestilance, war and suffering a spreading necrosis.

cancer: often impossible to eradicate entirely without killing yourself

humans: always impossable to eradicate entirely without killing yourself


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Mitchnast]
    #4083317 - 04/22/05 12:58 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

For sure, you are correct. Everything points to the fact that we are a cancer to the world around us. Well, most of us are. Humanity is creating an imbalance. The fact we are one with our universe which we depend on and pollute shows that we are like cancerous cells to a body. Eventually the cancer cells die by killing the body and it's self with it.

The environment feeds us and sustains us like a body as a whole serves to nurish and support the life of a single cell. We are a part of a body and we are killing away our own exsistance by destroying the body.


--------------------
Agent 727
7


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Mitchnast]
    #4083327 - 04/22/05 01:01 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

We can also do a comparison with feces... and show the similarities, or many other things.

Sorry, but what was the point in suggesting/showing this?

You've got a good grasp of cancer btw... but are you suggesting we attempt to treat this problem? Eradictate it? Use the world's nuclear arsenal as a form of macro nuclear radiation? Or solve it?

Cancer's only exist within a host.... cancer will always exist in one form or another, provided their is a suitable host... If we want to truely eliminate it, we'll have to kill off the host.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Mitchnast]
    #4083631 - 04/22/05 02:41 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

So then the question is, how can cancer, stop being cancer? What's the one thing that cancer does, that normal cells dont?


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: David_Scape]
    #4083649 - 04/22/05 02:53 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Perpetuate to the extent of the limitations of the environment; in way of the environment having the ability to still sustain itself, and said cancer. (tied to his human-cancer analogy of course)


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4083650 - 04/22/05 02:54 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

i was demonstrating how the nature of the human race mirrors that of cancer.

i diddnt intend to show anything else.

i diddn't suggest activism nor would cancer. organisms have mechanisms to fight disease but not cancers.

the earth has mechanisms to control population, im not saying that we will inevitably destroy our speceis. but im fairly sure that we will poison ourselves back to the dark ages and be reborn a new relapse.

the world can recover from us. but in our prime we are cancer. we make change. To say it is negative is presumptuous. though i do not personally approove of the widespread violation of nature by one mere species; it would be our way to think we really had an oppinion that mattered wouldn't it?

so yah, what im saying and suggesting doesn't matter. whats your point?

your take on the matter is all that ought to matter to you.
we have mutated frogs in almost every farmland, low sperm counts in farming districts, huge sections of scorched rainforest growing cafenated beverages where it used to make air. fish so laden with mercury sulfate that it is unsafe to eat preditory fish. an incresing need and desire and a drying well.

you know about this stuff? i think it bears mentioning as loudly as, and whenever possible. let our hell be the summation of the quality that we as individuals are ultimately responsible for all the abhorant consequences of the society from which we profit.
beyond that, do we think we can belong in a semblance of a heaven?


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Mitchnast]
    #4083663 - 04/22/05 03:03 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbup: nice reply, just wondering what the intention of your analogy was.

I think that what you're suggesting is indeed making a good point, the question that I was getting at is; how do you suggest that we attempt not to be human, when so many humans perpetuate, and utilize that which attributes to our cancerous nature?

I do not think that any semblance of a heaven is achievable under the current condition of the human mindset, in respects to the fact that... most humans in the world generally don't give a shit about the future, only the here and now... Additionally I don't believe it to be possible due to the semblance of hell that we all seem to enjoy so much, or rather the state of it being perpetuated with little thoughts as to an alternative. (I myself am subjected to it as well; circumstances force whole societies into our mass consumption without choice)

How to end the paradox, inspired by linear thought, that only perpetuates more destruction... :shrug: A link in the chain just needs to be broken, and all else falls.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Mitchnast]
    #4083673 - 04/22/05 03:06 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I covered this before in great depth. The macro can never be like the micro. Can a tree be like the forest? No!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4083687 - 04/22/05 03:10 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

thats the thing, choice.
it all comes down to the problem of choice.
society gives us the comfort of not having to choose.
it gives us the option, but limits the possibility and immures the outcomes.
so we can be this this abomination that we become thinking ourselvs innocent as individuals.

to answer your question, the realization i mentioned above, of our hell. responsibility for our choices. even the ones we allow others to make for us and for which we enjoy the benifet of in fact those choices especially.

now thats not something cancer would do. cancer has no accountability


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Swami]
    #4083692 - 04/22/05 03:13 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

:shocked: never say never.... shit.

Anyhow, it can in respects to analyzing a system, perhaps not perfectly. In terms of the analogy, and how it is applied it does apply. If you think in terms of the universe, and the earth as a body, and humans as a disease (of course omitting things) we are relatively small through comparison (on the micro level).

You can apply the notion of macro/micro to different scales in way of forces (electricity, magnetism, etc..)... same effects on a macro scale as micro (in principle), only on macroscopic scale a larger field is affected.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Mitchnast]
    #4083706 - 04/22/05 03:17 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

:lol: cancer with accountability.

What I was suggesting is... that for the most part, they aren't our choices.... their choices of a different idealogy sustaining itself through the suggestion that is indeed the only way, and the belief subset that is tied with the notion.... is further utilized as a justification to support our current infrastructure that is so hazardous.

:shrug: Human methods, die hard, just like our beliefs.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Swami]
    #4083707 - 04/22/05 03:17 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

swami, i take it you know what a fractal is?
a rather potent existace considering the very existance of even the IDEA of fractal continuim prooves your statement false.

the tree can very much be like the forest as one of its branches can be the tree and the branch the forest

the problem is a forest, in terms, is initiatory, and finate. it starts at a bunck of trees and ends there.

really i just dont understand what your objecting to....


--------------------


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4083724 - 04/22/05 03:25 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

"the most part", i could say "the benifet of our self'
because what matters most to us or anything nature creates on a survival level?

as survivors that is our paramount quality; to survive even florish.

having overcome choice, we similtaneously eliminate responsibility. this is how our mechanism of reproduction became cancerous.

choice was our grace, and rather than take the responsibility of choices, we slowly took it away from ourselves till it seemed that somebody else was always to blaime quite an ego boost i would say. and when all other survival challanges are covered the only way we can thrive is to grow in ego.


--------------------


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Mitchnast]
    #4083729 - 04/22/05 03:27 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

hey i think i just described the formation of human religon.


--------------------


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Mitchnast]
    #4083737 - 04/22/05 03:30 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

yah maybe the idea that god wills this to happen or the devil made me do this was the precursor to the cancer we have become. in our blaime transference potential
look at jesus, isnt the whole idea to give him your sins? hmmm humans are easy.
there like beavers building damnation.


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Mitchnast]
    #4083753 - 04/22/05 03:39 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

:lol: beavers building damnation.

Even in terms of reproduction... it's not so much the necessity, but the feeling involved that has lended itself to a population explosion.

I gurantee you if this continues.... In the future, protocols will be placed on breeding behavior, and limitations on number of children born (replacements perhaps), and war will perpetuated on even more trivial grounds then it is today, as a form of population reduction (happens today on different levels) as an ends to a means in response to our collective short-sightedness.

If that gets out of hand, well... perhaps a lottery system for Breeding, as well as licensing... It's a rather Authoritarian action, but if the situation continues, it will merit that if not more.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Mitchnast]
    #4083806 - 04/22/05 04:09 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

swami, i take it you know what a fractal is?

You are right. A piston ring is like a car and my hair is EXACTLY like my body. Return now to your regulary scheduled gibberish.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Mitchnast]
    #4083858 - 04/22/05 04:26 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

But still guys. Is it possible for us to change in such a way, that we're able to get to the stars and not break some rules of the planet we live on? I'm not saying there is'nt a way, i'm sincerely asking: is it possible?

I for one, have no real clue.

And even if i had the perfect solution. Even if i had the solution that could without a doubt, unequivocally, work perfectly for the human race in every way. How do you convince the teeming masses? The way I see it, if we really had such a solution, all you'd have to do is tell a couple people you know. At that point, it would spread so far, so fast...BOOM.


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: Mitchnast]
    #4083866 - 04/22/05 04:30 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

After reading this I got an idea, that at least I think is intresting.

When I use words like cell and molecule I forget exactly what those are, but I still used them so you could understand what I was meaning.

It's not that we are like cancer, we ARE cancer, just another form of it and we just don't realize it, because it is how we live, even if we don't intendt to destroy by ourselves, collectively we are working towards it.  We are ment to live, experience and destroy ourselves on different levels without being fully aware of how we do this, and effectivly killing some other concious being without a concious effort, but in our own little collective un-consious we are working toward the ultimate goal, death.

Science has shown us that every cell has many different parts all working to keep the cell alive.  Thats the same way we act, we are all part of the survival of this cell (earth?, our gallexy?,universe? I don't know what exactly or I probably would be in this body typing this :tongue:)  So we are just some random cell in something else beyond our understanding.  I know I'm not explaing this well, but bear with me....Going buy this we have answered the question does concious, exist on a cellulare,molecular level?  Yes, it does.  But we can't understand that because it beyond our abilities, maybe science will prove someday this maybe it wont.  We may just be stuck in this cycle of life and death forever and we will keep experience ourselves, and never move on, unless we somehow break free and hop into another cycle with a different spectrume of that we can experience it and how(different senses thatn the5 we know might be true if this were the case, I know it's strange imaging other ways we can precieve the rold around us.
 
Just as on some other plane of existance(call it what you please) there are cancerous beings like ourselves which is what we know as cancer.  So the everythign as a whole just kills itself and we keep going through the never ending cycle of life and death but not realizing where we fit.  Now I don't know if the differentl levels of existance are in the same plane as us,3D, or somethjign different.  Maybe our cycle as a whole is part of yet a larger cycle, and maybe if we can get out of this cycle(who knows how, maybe its a "test?" for ourselves), or maybe we will never leave our cycle and we will never do anything but kill ourselves to feed ourselves only too kill to feed again,(hence cycle, guess you guys get that part already hah)

sorry that I can't use all your "smart  :wink:" words and format them in a way which intellectuals would just see as being standard, hope you can understand my idea as a whole and then maybe you could try and add some detail and tweak the idea to make more sense., or just so it's presented better.(even if you don't agree with my idea still think about it and how it may work, and keep it serious please)
Or you just dismiss me as an idiot who is most likey very high, or comming down off something  :wink:  But think about it and try and see how it all fits.


I just thought this was a strange idea....... :eek:


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


Edited by bellylard (04/22/05 04:36 AM)


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: humans are more like cancer than unlike. [Re: barfightlard]
    #4083914 - 04/22/05 05:31 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

when i see cancer this is what i see:

a phenomenon that causes cellular independance of the body.  cells do have consciousness that works in tune with other cells to create your whole organism, when cells are cancerous, the consciousness has been switched to themselves.  perhaps like another body trying to form within your body, competeing for everything?

when i see humans..

every human is a cell in teh human organism.  i do see the human organism has cancer, because clusters of peopel form and they think they are independant of everyone else in the body...  they compete for nourishment among other valuable assets, always seeking to "outgrow" the other "entity" who are there brothers.

that is the analogy that hits deep for me.  this leads me to believe that human cancer can be cured.

perhaps even personal cancer can be cured through the power of some sort of concerted prayer, or pure belief of directing conscousness by the one who is afflicted?

:heart:

lol, so in conclusion...

humans are not more like cancer than anything else, they are organisms who are afflicted witha  sort of societal or species cancer :laugh:


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


Edited by Todcasil (04/22/05 05:38 AM)


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