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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer
    #2320264 - 02/10/04 02:42 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

CNN news tonight: new study on lung cancer patients followed over a 5-year period actually showed that patients who were optimistic or practiced positive thinking had a slightly less chance of survival or longevity compared to the pessimists. This is being published in a major medical journal. (Sorry, did not catch the name.) The report is essentially saying that attitude has no effect physiogically.

Who wudda thunk it? (Besides your resident skeptic) OK, let the doublespeak begin...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: Swami]
    #2320273 - 02/10/04 02:44 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

finite, static sample source trying to imply rules for an infinite, dynamic general population.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2320280 - 02/10/04 02:47 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

(not to DocktorJ)

Here is one possible example of doublespeak.

If positive results: wave the flag and dance around the fire proclaiming mysticism has value.

If negative results: it proves nothing.

And this is how we learn (or not)...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (02/10/04 10:53 AM)


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OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: Swami]
    #2320281 - 02/10/04 02:48 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'll bet that that study can be refuted. Give me the name of the study. You can bet I didn't pray for the sonofabitch that had cancer! If I had been praying for the stupidsonofabitch that had cancer, that motherfucker would have been out of his death bed by now, dancing on the streets...


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: Swami]
    #2320282 - 02/10/04 02:49 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

If negative results:




criticize the experiment.


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: Frog]
    #2320299 - 02/10/04 02:57 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The study said NOTHING of prayer. Don't go inserting extra stuff. Will publish it or link it if I can find it.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: Swami]
    #2320304 - 02/10/04 02:59 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Cool, there is one example of doublespeak.

If positive results: wave the flag and dance around the fire proclaiming mysticism has value.






I dont remember that part of my post.  must have typed it during one of my blackouts.  and then erased it later, in another blackout. 

I question the validity of all experiments, whether I like the results or not. 

let me ask you this SWAMI:

How the fuck are they going to objectively measure someone's "attitude" ?  With a little questionnaire? :rolleyes:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2320368 - 02/10/04 03:26 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

How the fuck are they going to objectively measure someone's "attitude" ?




Doctor J!!!  I am disappointed in you.  Use mood rings. :lol:


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: Swami]
    #2320411 - 02/10/04 03:50 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
CNN news tonight: new study on lung cancer patients followed over a 5-year period actually showed that patients who were optimistic or practiced positive thinking had a slightly less chance of survival or longevity compared to the pessimists. This is being published in a major medical journal. (Sorry, did not catch the name.) The report is essentially saying that attitude has no effect physiogically.

Who wudda thunk it? (Besides your resident skeptic) OK, let the doublespeak begin...




it means that those who practiced "positive thinking" and survived went on to write books about their miraculous recovery, while those who died could not write about the time that "positive thinking" didn't work. so.. it has 100% success rate. doublethink works all the time.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2320777 - 02/10/04 10:49 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I question the validity of all experiments, whether I like the results or not.
Ah, a man after my own heart! You are now an official member of the skeptic camp.

How the fuck are they going to objectively measure someone's "attitude" ? With a little questionnaire?
Dunno, but probably some sort of psychological profile. Will have to wait and see...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: Swami]
    #2320794 - 02/10/04 11:00 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

web page

Here is one article summation without details:

Optimism no help in cancer fight

February 9, 2004

A positive attitude does not improve the chances of surviving cancer and doctors who encourage patients to keep up hope may be burdening them, Australian researchers say.

Optimism made no difference in the fate of most of the 179 cancer patients that Australian researchers followed over five years. Only eight people were still living by the time the study ended in 2001.

All the patients in the new study were suffering from a common form of lung cancer.

Although the study was small and dealt with a kind of cancer that offers little chance for survival (about 12 per cent of patients live beyond five years), health experts say it is the first scientifically valid look at optimism and cancer. The results surprised researchers, who expected optimistic patients to live longer than their counterparts.

Patients are burdened by trying to maintain a positive outlook during their difficult situations, said researchers from the Peter MacCallum Cancer Centre in Melbourne and five other health centres in an article published in the journal Cancer.

The study found that optimism dimmed when patients experienced the toxic effects of cancer treatment and when they learned more about the realities of the disease.

"We should question whether it is valuable to encourage optimism if it results in the patient concealing his or her distress in the misguided belief that this will afford survival benefits," the study's lead author, Penelope Schofield, wrote. "If a patient feels generally pessimistic ... it is important to acknowledge these feelings as valid and acceptable."


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: Swami]
    #2320797 - 02/10/04 11:01 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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Anonymous

Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: Swami]
    #2320805 - 02/10/04 11:05 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: ]
    #2320814 - 02/10/04 11:08 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

It appears that all I can find is the snyopsis. Apparently we will have to get the medical magazine (still not sure which one) for the real details.

Too bad the story didn't directly state something like:

News Flash: Pessimists can now feel vindicated!


That sounds suspiciously cynical even with the icon, something you profess to detest.


Edited by Swami (02/10/04 11:13 AM)


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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: Swami]
    #2320906 - 02/10/04 12:03 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I think a positive attitude can improve quality of life, and despite that it has not been proven, I have some faith that optimism can promote some subtle physiological benefits.


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: Swami]
    #2321016 - 02/10/04 01:58 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

'Optimism and survival in lung carcinoma patients' from the journal 'Cancer':

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/107582513/HTMLSTART

Edit: this is the article which the CNN report is based on. I could view it from school, but when I'm home there's only the abstract or the option of reading the article for $25. Guess my uni has some sort of subscription.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


Edited by muhurgle (02/10/04 02:59 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: Swami]
    #2321098 - 02/10/04 02:28 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

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Anonymous

Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: muhurgle]
    #2321114 - 02/10/04 02:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: ]
    #2321139 - 02/10/04 02:44 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

We all remember the flawed prayer studies done by people who didn't understand the mechanism of prayer.

Disclaimer: no facetiousness or sarcasm implied in any way.

These people did the best the knew how according to what little understanding there is of prayer and got regular prayer groups of dedicated people to be involved. If you believe you have a much deeper insight than what most don't comprehend, why would you not share this knowledge in book or lecture form? Sounds like a "calling" to me. Perhaps that was the "purpose" of your illness and subsequent odds-defying recovery.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: New Study On Positive Thinking and Cancer [Re: Swami]
    #2321188 - 02/10/04 03:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

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