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OfflineEllis Dee
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Will GOP victory equate to legislative success?
    #1029752 - 11/06/02 09:32 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

This year I made my donations and lent my support with two legislativew goals in mind. The first being the so called assault weapons ban sunset in 2004 and the second being the ban on partial birth abortion, with the side goal of the appointment of the confirmation of conserative pro-life judges. While the GOP now has a slim majority once again in both the house and senate I wonder if the conservatives have enough stomach to allow the AW ban to sunset while the president promises to sign it and if the dems use all their power in the senate to block the PBA ban. Lets discuss these issues here.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1030113 - 11/06/02 11:15 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I'm just pissed that I can't own a surface to air missle launcher.

Why would anyone need assault rifles?


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Edited by Phluck (11/06/02 11:16 PM)


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1030139 - 11/06/02 11:22 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

with so much fucked up shit happening in the world right now, how can you only be thinking about owning an assault rifle and conservative judges? that scares the hellllllllllllllll out of me.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: Phluck]
    #1030164 - 11/06/02 11:26 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

IMHO, there is no better platform of highly mobile firepower available to civilians. I've been wanting to get an M1A anyway and they're not afected by the AW ban. The AW ban also banned selling new manufacture mags and clips with more than a 10 round capacity which is really what pissed me off the most about it. Thumbhole stocks and calling your flash suppressor a recoil disimpator or some other crap are just technicalities. But the AW ban didn't ban assault weapons, it dealt only with ban looking things on semi-auto rifles and regular capacity mags. By definition an assault weapon is fully automatic, and those were controled under Reagan.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Anonymous

Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1030176 - 11/06/02 11:29 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Got no problems with abortions or semi-auto guns of any shape.

I am truley CONSERVATIVE, not selectively.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1030192 - 11/06/02 11:33 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Oh.

I'm still confused.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #1030197 - 11/06/02 11:34 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know what you mean. We've got good anti-terror leadership in the White House. We're ridding the world of terrorists one step at a time. The economy is strong, people are spending lots and not trying to conserve what they have like they would if it was weak. Go to some of the places that are supposed to be reeling by unemployment and you'll see the medium priced resturaunts are packed. Financial contributions are back to normal levels. The overall economy is healthy, except for the 'regular' international trade imbalance.

Allowing the AW ban to die is important to me. First thing I'll do after it dies is get a new Glock 17 with 15 regular capacity mags for 20 bucks each, the mags now cost $100 bucks each due to the ban on new ones.

Conservative judges are exremely important. There is a judicial crisis due to the liberals blocking all conservatives for the simple reason that they're not activists, but strict constitutionalists. With conservative judges in office we can begin to overturn some of these bad judicial decisions.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1030243 - 11/06/02 11:46 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

** We've got good anti-terror leadership in the White House**
that's partly what i'm talking about. that great leadership is still bombing the hell out of the afghan population, is about to kill off several hundred or even thousand more iraqis, and will probably do the same to much of colombia, the central pacific, and africa. justified, you might say, in the wake of "9/11," but there are very simple changes in the way the united states goverment deals with the rest of the world that can prevent it from being pissed the fuck off at us enough to do something like that. and you might not care about all those people after all, you've only ever seen one of them on TV but they deserve, if nothing else, a little peace of mind every once in a while while they make their meager livings.
as to the rest of your post, the us economy is not an indicator of the level of suffering in the world, in fact, if anything it is inverselely proportional.


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Offlineehud
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #1032823 - 11/07/02 04:10 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

thing is, the US is alot less war like than alot of other countries out there. Just be glad we dont have a Reble dictator trying to control Minesota. The reason countries have a problem with our military is because we are strong and precise. The countries we are at war with have no chance of winning so that just pisses them off. I dont blame them, but I would rather have it this way where America stands up and kicks butt then turning around while countries violate human rights.

Boo on PBA and I dont really care about AW.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: ehud]
    #1033242 - 11/07/02 06:19 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

whether the US is more or less warlike than other countries is not really what is concerning to me except when considering the possibility of another country invading the US which as you said would be an impossible venture. i mean, the situation which you are describing doesn't really exist in the real world. the reason people (i'm not talking about countries, i.e. governments which almost invariably have different views than the general populace) are pissed off is the fact that the united states government believes that it can interfere with the internal affairs of any region of the world for whatever reason it deems necessary and by whatever means it sees fit. that is not something i can condone. examples are readily abundant: iraq, cuba, afghanistan, east timor, nicaragua, colombia, el salvador, chile, bolivia, somalia, hawaii, phillipines, guam, korea, vietnam, hell even the united states. in all of these cases, the us governments desires to expand the influence of US business took precendence over the lives and livelyhoods of a foreign (or native, non-white) population. i can provide details on any of these cases if you wish.
as to the claim that the united states intervenes on the behalf of human rights, look at the above cases to see that the us government has no problems with the human rights violations occurring in other countries if the regime in power is friendly to US interests. alleged human rights violations are only mentioned in cases of non-compliance of foreign governments with the wishes of the us.


Edited by ChuangTzu (11/07/02 06:21 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #1033246 - 11/07/02 06:21 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Assault weapons are fun. Abortions are fun. Let's shoot the babies before they are fully out of the womb.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: Anonymous]
    #1033253 - 11/07/02 06:23 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Guns can hurt innocent people. I think it's more fun to stop the baby before it's all the way out, stick a hollow tube in the base of it's skull, scramble it's brains, and then suck them out. That way no innocent person gets hurt... right?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (11/07/02 06:26 PM)


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Offlineehud
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #1033637 - 11/07/02 09:33 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

"possibility of another country invading the US which as you said would be an impossible venture."

I didn't really say that, and we were invaded on 9/11. I wouldn't say it is impossible ifact I would say it is almost def going to happen again.

As to your list of countries.... I have a question. Do you think the US should never use military power to help a country out? In alot of the situations listed it is because of the US that people are better off then they would be without our help. Korea they asked for our help and we protected them. Chili kept thier country together too I have been there, and it is a very Pro-American enviroment. Afaganastan women can show thier face in public, and young girls can now go to school. Would the world be a better place if the US did not exist? I would have to say NO. We just want the rest of the world to get the same chance of success that americans get. I think that is possible if there is not a King or dictator preventing you from ever succeeding.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: ehud]
    #1034338 - 11/08/02 01:08 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

**Do you think the US should never use military power to help a country out?**
help a country out? the us government gave money to saddam to buy chemical weapons to use on iran. who was that helping?
**Korea they asked for our help and we protected them.**
who in korea asked for "our" help except the elite with ties to US business?
**Chili kept thier country together too I have been there, and it is a very Pro-American enviroment.**
salvador allende got elected president of chile in what was deemed by international monitors to be a fair election. despite this, the us became concerned that he might not be friendly to foreign (US) corporations in the region and absolutely could not accept that. for 3 years, the us funded a junta headed by Gen. pinochet which finally took power in 1973 (incidentally on 9/11). it ruled until 1990. during that time, it killed over 3,000 people and tortured thousands more. what do you mean by "chile kept their country together?" pinochet was arrested and tried for crimes against humanity some years after he stepped down. during his entire time as dictator, he was supported by the us government. last i heard of this guy he was arrested by the world court on extradition requests from 4 or 5 countries for human rights abuses (including the said 3,000+ death-squad style killings)
about afghanistan, the current regime is not much better than the taliban, they are a radical islamic regime as well, supporting such things as the cutting off of hands for stealing food.
**Would the world be a better place if the US did not exist?**
who the fuck can know that?
**We just want the rest of the world to get the same chance of success that americans get.**
that's noble, but the people who RUN this country could care less.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: ehud]
    #1034461 - 11/08/02 01:36 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

we were invaded on 9/11.

eh?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1036639 - 11/08/02 04:41 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

**we were invaded on 9/11. **

yeah, i just told you why. and even if it had been completely out of the blue and random that still wouldn't give the US government license to blow up strategic parts of the world for it's own monetary advancement.


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OfflinePope Ife
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1036941 - 11/08/02 05:58 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Dude, im really pissy these past few days. What could be worse than a privatized gov't? *shudders* Yes, no matter how much bush tries to sell this war to us, it is a sham. Yes, saddam is a bastard, well so is bush. Saddam may have weapons, and so does bush. and bush has used them in the last year, against the innocent of Afghanistan, so that he could put in a puppet regime and his corporations could have an oil pipeline.. bush cares about 1 thing: money. oil= money for bush's administration which is comprised of CEOs, and for the generous doners to his campaign. Im sorry im off topic. Allow me to ramble further. Abortion sucks, agreed, but is necessary for those who arent ready or are too poor to raise a child. There are enough starving children in the world. You have no right to take this right from a woman. GUNS KILL PEOPLE. And more often the people killed are innocent than they are criminals. America needs to get off its obsession w/violence.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: Pope Ife]
    #1037056 - 11/08/02 06:34 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

In reply to:

GUNS KILL PEOPLE.



Guns are inanimate objects. A gun will no more kill a person by itself that than a baseball bat. Place a loaded firearm on your living room table. Leave it there for a year. I guarantee that if no one touches it, no one will be killed by it. But take guns away from private citizens, put them in the hands of people following government orders and what do you have? Look at the history of the twentieth century, GOVERNMENTS and their agents wielding guns killed record numbers of individuals. Yet what is the inane solution to gun violence? Why, take guns out of the hands of private citizens and only let governments have them. (Never mind the idea that criminals will NOT turn in their weapons, that the law abiding will be left defenseless) This is naive, pure and simple, a prescription for tyranny.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: Evolving]
    #1037254 - 11/08/02 08:08 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

That's so funny. This attitude is so unique to America. In Canada, we don't have guns like you do in the states. The government hasn't taken over yet...

I've always thought protection from tyranny hinged on democracy. Have any democratic countries taken away their citizens guns and then imposed a police state? Quite the contrary. Americans have more guns per citizen of any democratic country, and it also most closely resembles a police state out of the democratic countries.

Europe has even more stringent rules about guns than Canada. Are they living in a police state?

Guns make it easy to kill. Not having a gun reduces spontaneous murders. By the time you figure out another way to kill, you've cooled down. People make mistakes with guns, mistakes with guns kill. If people kill people, and the number of guns in a population has nothing to do with it, why are American murder rates so much higher than other democratic country?

Just my two cents.





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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1037328 - 11/08/02 08:57 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

In reply to:

I've always thought protection from tyranny hinged on democracy.



You thought wrong. Democracy is only a means of decision making, it is no guarantee of liberty. An unfettered democracy is nothing more than tyranny of the majority. If the U.S. was a pure democracy and the majority of people voted to execute all people of African descent there would be nothing (legally) from stopping the government from exercising the will of the majority.

In reply to:

Have any democratic countries taken away their citizens guns and then imposed a police state?



Yes, Adolph Hitler was democratically elected. Governments kill more people that private criminal activity.

In reply to:

Europe has even more stringent rules about guns than Canada. Are they living in a police state?



A great many of them were under the control of one until the U.S. liberated them. Remember Nazi Germany? Just because a country does not currently have a police state is not an argument that one could not come into being. Just because someone has not crashed their automobile, does this mean he shouldn't carry auto insurance?

In reply to:

Guns make it easy to kill. Not having a gun reduces spontaneous murders. By the time you figure out another way to kill, you've cooled down. People make mistakes with guns, mistakes with guns kill.



Cars make it easy to kill. Not having a car reduces spontaneous murders. By the time you figure out another way to kill, you've cooled down. People make mistakes with cars, mistakes with cars kill.

In reply to:

If people kill people, and the number of guns in a population has nothing to do with it, why are American murder rates so much higher than other democratic country?



Why are Swiss murder rates lower than other European countries which control guns?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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