Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
Anonymous

Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1051282 - 11/14/02 12:20 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

If you work for someone else you are subject to their HIRING policies. Be your own boss or work for likeminded people. This is a free country.

the police use a small hand held thermal imagery devise to spy on the EXTERNAL heat signature from HID lights. They do so not randomly, but after receiving a tip. They also get your electric bill from your power company, after gettting a tip.

Thermal signatures from plants and monitoring them from the AIR(helicopter), does not violate your right to privacy. If they can see it from 300 feet, it is legal for them to do so.

I agree all of these thingas are intrusive, but not like living under a police state.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: ]
    #1051373 - 11/14/02 12:50 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Where did you get this information?

The United States Supreme Court has ruled that thermal scanning is unconstitutional and requires a warrant. If you know otherwise please post a link.

Thanks,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: hongomon]
    #1051497 - 11/14/02 01:56 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Operation Green Merchant was found to be unconstitutional. I suggest you look it up.

Most grow ops get busted due to accidental discovery or from someone telling on you. The latter sparks an investigation that might lead to you getting arrested.

Helicopters look for outdoor crops, not indoor. To build a case against an indoor grow op, they use a hand held thermal imagery device that Registers the EXTERNAL heat signature from the HID. The image is taken from outside your home and does not look inside your home. This is simply a product of our own technology. The same technology that allows you to GROW indoors!!!

Terrorism is the use of force or threats to intimidate, esp. as a political policy. Was that so hard to define?

If you are plotting to support the use or actually use terrorism domestically, you are going to be nailed by the patriot act. This is what it is for.

If you are some foreighner and you think America is a terrorist state, then feel free to start your own investigations. If you are an American and you feel uncomfortable about having your emails read, you really don't understand that your government is a representative government.

I am free to do what ever I want within the privacy of my HOME. There are extremely strict rules for the cops to actually USE the information they gather against you. The only thing that has been loosened is the method for gathering Information of a specific type of crime(Terrorism).

Again, if anyone here knows of someone who has been taken away and held , please give me an example. Someone you know specifically!!!


As far as having cops point guns at you, unless they raided the wrong house, they apparently felt the need to come in on RAIL GUN, via a SWAT TEAM. What do you do for a living? A warrant is only needed to actually Convict you of a crime they raided your home for, not to enter your home. There are many instances when the Cops can legally enter your home without a warrant.

I had the swat team come in my home one morning. Machine guns pointed right at my head. Of course they had been in pursuit of a home invader that wound up in our home during his escape from a car accident with a cop that was pursuing him and his three accomplaces. They pointed their guns at all of us, but only the bad guy got arrested. We had drugs in plain view, but the cops didn't give a shit. It was the swat team and Burglary cops, not the NARCOTICS division. They did not search the remainder of the home. they went only where the bad guy had been.

A police state is a government that supresses it's political opposition by means of police. Since the Government of the USA is a democratically elected body bound by a Bill of rights, you CANNOT EVEN REMOTELY CALL IT A POLICE STATE.

We just have the ways and means to have LOTS of police. We have a large diversity of cultures, an excessive amount of freedom, and a percentage of every population doesn't like to play nice. The people of this country are cops, politicians, businessmen, professors, bus drivers, etc.............. We choose to allow our politicians to make laws for us to live by, they cannot be re-elected by making laws we choose not to live by.

If you do Drugs you do something the majority of people who vote, do not want done. Guess what, if you do it carefully, you can grow, manufature, consume, whatever you want within the PRIVACY of your home. IT is EXTREMELY HARD for cops to ARREST you for it. If you choose to sell, or do them in public, your chances of getting arrested INCREASE dramatically, simply because the USA has the WAYS and MEANS to get you. TAX PAYERS PAY BIG DOLLARS to have the largest police forces to enforce the laws they agreed upon as a majority, while still trying to protect the INDIVIDUAL(Bill of RIGHTS).

I am the priveledged minority. I wake up everyday with the ABSOLUTE knowledge that I am more free then any of my ancestors have ever been in history.

I understand your fear of invasion of privacy in regards to wire taps and read emails. As long as you operate under the knowledge that it can only be used against you for being involved in terrorism at some level, it should not bother you. It cannot be used against you for ANYTHING ELSE.

Complaining about the administration is not terrorism. Financing Lobbies against the present administration is not terrorism.

Always remember this government(powerful minority) you refer to was elected by the citizens of the USA. The same citizens that are free to leave the country if it has soured their souls.

Corporations are owned by citizens. Everything in the usa is owned by the citizens,privately. I really don't understand your notion that it is not.

Suspicion is the sum total of all intelligence agencies of the USA, and it's allies. It can be a tip from someone already held, associations with known terrorists, the electrician who notices suspicous crap in your home, or yard. It is all the information they can legally gather about you. Legal in the sense that it has been legislated and approved by the officials YOU and I elect.

If you don't want them spying, find out who voted for it and who voted against it, and do everything you and your likeminded citizens can do to make sure these politicians are held accountable. You find someone who has been held against their will, released, and use their case to challenge the legislation. Guess what, even though the legislation gets legally passed, you still have the power and FREEDOM to fight it all the way up to the supreme court.

I am conservative in the sense that I wan't strict adherence to the Bill of Rights. I am willing to compromise my freedoms when I see the need. Like me choosing to BREAK THE LAW, even though I know it could result in me losing my FREEDOMS. I have enough faith in the remaining protections of the BILL of RIGHTS, to allow them to read my emails for the purpose of catching terrorists, and not fear going to jail for the laws I might break. Why? I don't use force to intimidate or influence the political process within the borders of the USA. I don't have to, I am free to influence the process without violence.

It is only because we are so FREE that terrorists have been able to hide amongst us. This doesn't mean I want to make us less free, but it means I am willing to sacrifice the privacy of my emails for the specific purpose of my government monitoring for TERRORISTS.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: ]
    #1051533 - 11/14/02 02:18 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

And some misguided citizens think the Federal Government is on our side if their political party is in power. I cannot imagine such naive thinking, if one could call it that




You really have trouble listening. The federal government is a representative government of ALL the citizens of the USA.  If you want something done, alot of people agree with you, you can make it happen.  It doesn't just represent the extremely rich, new or old money.  If it did, you would have no choice in anything that effects your daily life except to live or die at your own hand.  Your possesions would be taken from you, you would be forced into slavery, and subject to every whim I had. :blush: Just kidding, but you hopefully get my point.

You are free to effect change in policy.  You just are not free to use VIOLENCE or FORCE.  Only the collective mass of all citizens can implement policies into laws that will be FORCED upon the citizens of this country, and have them STAY as laws.

If you still think I am Naive, or not thinking for myself. woopdy doo.  I fear my government far less then I fear most!!   

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: ]
    #1051550 - 11/14/02 02:30 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

That is what I said. They can't randomly do it. They have to have a reason(judicially approved) to even look. Usually the result of a tip from someone who rats you out!!! Then they use the imagery and your electric usage to complete the warrant to get into your home.

OPERATION GREEN MERCHANT WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL on many levels.

The information on the actual camera and it's use was made available via copy from the university of Florida library (federal document) department. It was the document from the DOMESTIC CANNABIS ERADICATION PROGRAM. It is a financial record of expenditures, assets siezed, number of plants eradicted(cultivated and wild). Number of arrests, number of guns confiscated. BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: ]
    #1051568 - 11/14/02 02:39 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

If using thermal signatures of the plants themselves(via helicopter) on outdoor cultivated plants, they do NOT need a search warrant. They can fly at a minimum legal hieght and take heat samples of everything in your yard that is not REASONABLY HIDDEN.
To use one upon a house to pick up the heat signature of HID LIGHTS that makes it's way through your walls and windows. They NEVER RANDOMLY USE them. They KNOW you are growing and are building the CASE before they enter your home to arrest you.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: ]
    #1053135 - 11/14/02 04:12 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

"You really have trouble listening. The federal government is a representative government of ALL the citizens of the USA. If you want something done, alot of people agree with you, you can make it happen."


Let's not make this a personal issue.  I do not always have 100% reading comprehension but that is besides the point.  The comment to which you were replying was not directed at you, or even anyone on this forum.  It was a generalization about the people that I associate with in the sphere of politics.

For the most part I agree with you.  I thought you were saying something other than what you were about the HID lights etc.  Thank you for the clarification.

The only minor difference of opinion that we have is that you seem to describe the federal government from a theoretical point of view and I see the practical application to be a bit different.

The idea that the unwashed masses can 'have their collective way' through their duly elected representatives is a bit misleading.  Otherwise we wouldn't have activist judges making law instead of interpreting it.  There are literally thousands of judical opinions that fly in the face of 'the will of the people'.  But that's our system and no system is perfect.

Thanks for the clarifications. :smile:

Cheers, 

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: ]
    #1053536 - 11/14/02 06:38 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Well, of course USA is not a police state.

I guess the impression I get is that they are looking. There are massive amounts of cops LOOKING.

By looking, I mean, trying to make criminals out of people. Somehow, I think crime cries out to be discovered. It doesn't have to be sought out so much.

Reading mail, looking through garbage, some of the roadside stops I've been through, are intrusive. It would be nice if cops only followed up leads and dealt with complaints. Not actively, randomly searched citizens.

Your run in with the swat team was cool. Drugs in plain site, no qustions asked? That's another thing about America...what social class are you in? I bet your not a poor black/hispanic from Halrem or Anacosta or whatever? I'm sorry to use this tone. It's just honestly the impression I've gotten of the USA in my Canadian life...

I understand the movie stars in Hollywood are excempt from the drug laws?


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES

Edited by carbonhoots (11/14/02 06:42 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: ]
    #1057367 - 11/16/02 01:07 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I don't have your faith in my government, Teonan. In fact, I don't believe we should have your kind of faith in our government. It's a necessary evil that should be kept on a short leash, and look around--it's looking more and more like the contrary.

I think Mr. Mushrooms said it very well when he said, "...You seem to describe the federal government from a theoretical point of view and I see the practical application to be a bit different."

Yes, IN THEORY they're just regular folks like you and me--they love their country too, etc. But in practice--what the hell? The system is such that it filters out the kind of people you're talking about. Or at least ties them up so that they don't behave the same. I know that sounds like a pessimistic observation, but I don't think it is, I think it's a realistic observation. Puppet on the right, puppet on the left. You think it's all hunky dory? That puts you in a real minority in this forum, because for all the differences here, most posters agree that things aren't going so well.

But back to the Homeboy Security Issue. Can we even discuss terrorism without stepping back a ways? I say the "War on Terror" is bullshit. Not because I don't think there's a chance for more of what we're seeing, but because

1. It has served to further empower the federal government, and further deprive us of basic rights; (In a theoretical world like you propose this might not be so bad, but in a practical world we should be very concerned about turning over so much power to a centralized government.)

and 2. It's a very one-sided, myopic reaction to the problem. It is the hammer-nail approach, to a T. It just isn't possible, as Cheney said, for the conflict to end "only in their complete and utter destruction." It's ridiculous to even suggest it. Who are they ? For every Rashid there's a McVeigh. They aren't unified, they don't have a single agenda. Terrorism isn't an ideology. It's a reaction. Our war on it is like a fire-breathing dragon trying to stamp out its own fires as fast as it starts them. The harder it works to stamp them out, the heavier it breathes. And so it goes.

So today it's e-mails and whatever other kinds of domestic spying. And tomorrow? It won't make it go away, any more than the drug war made drugs go away, so really, what about tomorrow?

Stuff like this, man, this is just too creepy:

"Suspicion is the sum total of all intelligence agencies of the USA, and it's allies. It can be a tip from someone already held, associations with known terrorists, the electrician who notices suspicous crap in your home, or yard. It is all the information they can legally gather about you. Legal in the sense that it has been legislated and approved by the officials YOU and I elect."

Think about what you're saying for a moment! "Legal in the sense..." Agh! Hunky dory, hunky dory. How many times a day do I have to say it before I can believe it too? What the fuck is suspicious crap, anyway? Hmm...terrorists are anti-American...this guy has an "Anti-American" publication in his house...maybe he's a terrorist...I think I'm supposed to report this kind of thing.... I don't know about your electrician, but mine might put these thoughts together. Do I sound paranoid? Obviously I'm thinking extreme scenerio, but the Homeboy Security Act seems to have the fodder for it.

"We choose to allow our politicians to make laws for us to live by, they cannot be re-elected by making laws we choose not to live by."

What do you mean by that?

"I am the priveledged minority. I wake up everyday with the ABSOLUTE knowledge that I am more free then any of my ancestors have ever been in history."

Put it to music.

Edited by hongomon (11/16/02 01:08 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Will GOP victory equate to legislative success? [Re: hongomon]
    #1057848 - 11/16/02 09:32 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Woah, get down hongomon!

Very nicely put.

I see you have a few beans in your noodle.

Simply put, that was the best post I have read by you, lucid, articulate and above all mentioned me.  :wink:

Cheers, 

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Examining the phenomenon of conservative success in America carbonhoots 971 3 04/15/04 07:36 PM
by BleaK
* Is it time for conservatives to dump the GOP? JesusChrist 1,461 12 02/07/10 09:27 AM
by zappaisgod
* Victory for Medical Marijuana Patients in Court! silversoul7 1,190 9 12/19/03 12:55 AM
by silversoul7
* RSC proposed cuts incite friction among House GOP lonestar2004 580 2 09/22/05 02:40 PM
by lonestar2004
* A Small Victory. GabbaDjS 1,049 13 12/30/02 12:17 AM
by Innvertigo
* Another Success for Our Administration Ravus 804 9 01/26/05 11:24 AM
by J4S0N
* Liberal bias result of GOP anti-intellectualism
( 1 2 all )
Silversoul 3,267 31 05/29/05 02:25 PM
by zappaisgod
* GOP memo says issue offers political rewards. lonestar2004 1,893 13 04/07/05 10:57 AM
by Seuss

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
2,373 topic views. 0 members, 4 guests and 9 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.022 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.