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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard
    #1000045 - 10/28/02 03:06 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)



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Offlineakyouser_oner
unclefuckerextrordinaire

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 546
Loc: standing in the shadows a...
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1000052 - 10/28/02 03:08 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

IMO, patriotism is a way for a government to control it's people. if i got everyone here to be 'down for my cause' i could manipulate you all... hmmmmmmmm  :smirk:

btw, i don't feel it either


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-akyouser.oner
<(((((((((((((((@~~~


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1000057 - 10/28/02 03:10 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Don't confuse patriotism with nationalism.

One is good. One is bad.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1000059 - 10/28/02 03:11 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

True patriotism is only a love for your country. If you enjoy living where you do and wouldn't want to live anywhere else, you're a patriot. Some politicians (I won't name names) want to make you belive that you have to go along with everything your government does to be a patriot. That is what I would call the raping of our language to gain political support.


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: Sclorch]
    #1000079 - 10/28/02 03:17 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)



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Anonymous

Re: Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1000096 - 10/28/02 03:22 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I love America because I have a Constitution to protect my rights. Granted some politicians would wipe their ass with it to further their own agenda, but an abused constitution is better than no constitution at all. Two examples:

In Germany, where rights are not protected as much as in America, it is illegal to display a swastika. In America, that would violate freedom of expression, and would not be tolerated.

In England, which is relatively similar to Germany, guns have been all but outlawed. Gun confiscation and regestration would never fly in America.


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: Anonymous]
    #1000111 - 10/28/02 03:27 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)



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Anonymous

Re: Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1000130 - 10/28/02 03:35 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

There is no ban on ECHELON writings or swastikas.

Another difference between America and many European countries which makes me prefer America, is our policy on sales tax. In Germany you pay exactly what everything is marked at. If a hammer says 5 euros, it is 5 euros. While this is more convenient, it also prevents the population from knowing just how much the government is taking.

I just mentioned that because I bought some rye berries earlier and the total came to $5.03 and I only had a $10 bill, which kind of pissed me off.


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1000580 - 10/28/02 06:33 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I dislike Patriotism because I believe it creates an us against them vibe that causes friction. To me, the embodiment of what is wrong with the patriotic ideal is in all these "United We Stand" pictures we have seen after 9/11. They say "United We Stand" and then show a picture of the American flag. Maybe I am reading more into than it deserves but to me it kind of proves what I am talking about. They mean united we stand for America. However, I think we must learn to live in sync with all forms of life. I made a few and plastered them around town that say "United We Stand" with a picture of the globe (because a picture of the Universe is hard to come by).

To qoute some people -

"It is a round world last time I checked" - Bill Hicks

"Better to have pride in being a citizen of the world, then the pride that divides when the colorful rag is unfurled" - Neil Peart of Rush (the song "Territories")

I think it is possible to love your country without hating others but we have so many symbols to show ONE country and all the maps have so many lines, I think it gives people a complex and the average patriate does not pull this off, in my humble and fallable opinion.

As to where it comes from I am not to sure. My theory would be a way of increasing our pride. I mean if we are American then we aren't just anybody...right? (Not my belief) You know what I am trying to say? I mean how many times is the word "pride" assossiated with Patriotism?

I don't think it makes us healthier and in the long run I don't think it makes us happier and I think its biggest influence is it increases our territorialism.

Me and you, we are humans...we're together and that is plenty for me. I love you!


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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Anonymous

Re: Patriotism [Re: Anonymous]
    #1000783 - 10/28/02 08:00 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Good thing we live in America, where any maniac can get their hands on a gun and swasticas can be displayed freely.


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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1000886 - 10/28/02 08:43 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I think genuine patriotism can only be felt if you think that your country is a better place to live than any other country.  If you take your current lifestyle and standard of living as a given, it's hard to feel patriotic.  But if you've been to a 3rd world country or one with very few freedoms, then you might appreciate your own country a heck of a lot more, and feel proud to be a citizen.
With that said, I personally find it difficult to be overly patriotic in any country that claims it is "free", but puts you in jail for having drugs in the privacy of your own home.  I'll feel a lot more patriotic once I feel that I'm living in a "free" country!  :confused:     


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Patriotism [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1001008 - 10/28/02 09:33 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)


I hate patriotism, but I'd rather live in America than most other countries.

I do think that patriotism segrates humans more than unites them in a way.

I pitcure it as a city (the world) with a bunch of gangs. And all the gangs go around taking their money from their neighborhood to support themselves, sometimes getting in a gun battle with a rival gang. Patriotism is like wearing your gang colors and saying- 'I'm proud to be segrated conformist to this neighborhood, because we are the best and any other gang trying to go against us should pay in blood'.




--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1001124 - 10/28/02 10:17 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Actually... I was wrong.

I was curious about the differences between the definitions of patriotism and nationalism, so I looked them up. It seems that they are in fact synonymous.

Fuck nationalism = Fuck patriotism


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Patriotism [Re: Murex]
    #1001181 - 10/28/02 10:38 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

I pitcure it as a city (the world) with a bunch of gangs. And all the gangs go around taking their money from their neighborhood to support themselves, sometimes getting in a gun battle with a rival gang.



Excellent analogy. Sounds similar to sentiments expressed by Robert Lefevre.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Re: Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1001260 - 10/28/02 11:03 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

This is an interesting topic, I think blind patriotism is exactly what america is feeling right now. They love their country.. but why? because we had some buildings blown up? twisted logic, because the effects of that are now causing us to lose freedoms, the very thing we based this country on. This reminds me of a political discussion I had with my dad the other day, we've always talked politics in the past, but he saw a side of me he hasnt seen. I told him I don't consider myself an american and I don't feel any patriotism towards the country, I told him I am a human being and I live on earth, this kind of shocked him, but after some discussion I think he really got my point and respected it.


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Anonymous

Re: Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1001272 - 10/28/02 11:07 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

You are all confusing patriotism with nationalism, which is easy given the fact that even our president doesn't know the difference. Patriotism is in no way pride towards one's country, it is love of one's country. Patriotism is a good thing on its own, it builds a caring society. Nationalism is pride in one's country, which can lead to aggressive, uncontrolled behavior. I am patriotic, but not nationalistic.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1001935 - 10/29/02 01:27 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Fuck patriotism! I'm a citizen of the world.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Patriotism [Re: Anonymous]
    #1002023 - 10/29/02 01:46 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

So you are saying the difference between the two is love compared to pride? Well that seems cookie cutter to me. Someones love for their country is very capable of instilling pride which can lead to those aggressive uncontrolled behavior. These two emotions are seperate things, but very capable of mingling together. In my opinion, patriotism leads to nationalism and vice versa... its the feeling that both of these convey that leads irrational behavior.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Patriotism [Re: Anonymous]
    #1002318 - 10/29/02 03:59 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Stonedfish: You are all confusing patriotism with nationalism...

Actually, this is what I thought at first too... then I looked up the definitions.

nationalism
n 1: love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it [syn: patriotism] 2: the conviction that the culture and interests of your nation are superior to those of any other nation
Source: WordNet ? 1.6, ? 1997 Princeton University

patriotism
n : love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it [syn: nationalism]
Source: WordNet ? 1.6, ? 1997 Princeton University


Also, since the only reference on dictionary.com was Princeton, I looked it up in my own dictionary. I was surprised to see the same thing there.

I think over the years, the dictionary people have made both words synonymous... which I think is a mistake.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 5 months, 1 day
Re: Patriotism [Re: Anonymous]
    #1002445 - 10/29/02 05:20 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

"In Germany, where rights are not protected as much as in America, it is illegal to display a swastika. In America, that would violate freedom of expression, and would not be tolerated. "- Well, I thinlk the wounds are still sore and they are very paranoid about that kind of thing happening again. As for your freedom of expression, you'd be amazed how liberal german television is compared to yours. Alot of the stuff shown would never make it past your censors.

"In England, which is relatively similar to Germany, guns have been all but outlawed. Gun confiscation and regestration would never fly in America." -The majority of people in this country dont want guns to be legal, so how does that contravene our civil liberties? On the other hand there are many people in the states who are opposed to your gun law, wheres their freedom? Anyway, I dont understand your obsession with carrying lumps of metal that kill people. You have one of the highest murder rates in the world - surely there is a connection!




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Always Smi2le


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