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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Language and sanity
    #9802038 -

Do you believe language is as crucial to sanity as proposed by Korzybski and R.A.W., or as perilous a fall into fascism as proposed by Orwell (i.e. 1984 and ___speak)?

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: Epigallo]
    #9802402 -

I'm not sure what you mean, so Ill just say a few things and maybe you can elaborate.

The social notion of sanity arises only from language or communication, whatever sort it may be. It signifies that something is either within and without of context/category.  So in and out - in context, in the mind, out of context, out of your mind.

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: Epigallo]
    #9802412 -

IMO language is not the problem.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: Epigallo]
    #9807991 -

Ice, I think so too.
I see language as a tool.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #9808235 -

But what would you do without this tool?
Language structurizes our thoughts, after all.

There might not be insanity without language, apart from physical dysfunctions.

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: Kukaracha]
    #9808445 -

Use other 'tools' in action.
I would call it 'psychical' dysfunction.
Words not only help us to structurize our thoughts. They are expression of them moreover. First one thinks, then one speaks. The others are just 'noisy' ones thinking with their tongues.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #9808742 -

So is the issue pre or post-language?

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: daytripper23]
    #9808860 -

How it is used, not whether we should have language - in case that wasn't cleared.

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: Epigallo]
    #9808899 -

Sanity is a relative term

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: Epigallo]
    #9811184 -

bradley said:
Do you believe language is as crucial to sanity as proposed by Korzybski and R.A.W., or as perilous a fall into fascism as proposed by Orwell (i.e. 1984 and ___speak)?


Define "sanity", and define "language".


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: Poid]
    #9811202 -

We need language to think/to communicate. Without language you're nothing but a rock.


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Re: Language and sanity [Re: learningtofly]
    #9811215 -

Not necessarily. What about vibes?

On Vibes


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: Poid]
    #9811261 -

Ok I concede on that point, I suppose I should have been more specific. I mean to say like things on a much higher level. Like how would you communicate "Capitalism" or "Homeostasis" without a language?

Wittgenstein said something along the lines of the limit of my language is the limit of my world.


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Edited by learningtofly (02/16/09 10:48 PM)

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: learningtofly]
    #9811295 -

I am going to duck out of this thread because I am definitely no longer interested. :bye:

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: Epigallo]
    #9811337 -

:cryariver:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: Epigallo]
    #9811389 -

bradley said:
Do you believe language is as crucial to sanity as proposed by Korzybski and R.A.W., or as perilous a fall into fascism as proposed by Orwell (i.e. 1984 and ___speak)?


I honestly believe that we could do with less words. There's far too much misunderstanding and confusion due to constant miscommunication. Language could be simplified in a way that would greatly benefit us all. I can only speak for English as this is the only language that I know. Eventually we will be able to speak telepathically and this will make life a lot easier for everyone. Language is a very important part of our existence and at this point it is obvious that we could not do without it. Eliminating certain words is not something that should be implemented as this is something that will just naturally happen on its own because it is in all of our best interest.

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: learningtofly]
    #9811431 -

learningtofly said:
Ok I concede on that point, I suppose I should have been more specific. I mean to say like things on a much higher level. Like how would you communicate "Capitalism" or "Homeostasis" without a language?

Wittgenstein said something along the lines of the limit of my language is the limit of my world.


Psychic communication via reading of vibes.


Read "The Martian Chronicles" by Ray Bradbury.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: zen buddy]
    #9811433 -

zen buddy said:
Eventually we will be able to speak telepathically and this will make life a lot easier for everyone. 

Go on....

Also, why would telepathy mean no more words? is this to say that all books will disappear? Even if you're telepathic you'd still be using words.


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Re: Language and sanity [Re: learningtofly]
    #9811530 -

learningtofly said:
zen buddy said:
Eventually we will be able to speak telepathically and this will make life a lot easier for everyone. 

Go on....

Also, why would telepathy mean no more words? is this to say that all books will disappear? Even if you're telepathic you'd still be using words.


If we could communicate telepathically we would send and receive emotions or images. I have communicated telepathically with friends and family and I actually heard the words but I believe that this was because that is how I am used to communicating. The reason we use words to communicate is because we cannot send emotions or images through our voice without them. When humans start to communicate telepathically we will still use words but gradually we will begin to realize that words are no longer necessary as we begin to send pure emotion and imagery.

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Re: Language and sanity [Re: Poid]
    #9812524 -

What you're calling vibes could be unconscious interpretations, as intuition could be unconscious reasoning.

Just being curious, I might read more of your thread, but which are your bases to conclude the existance of "vibes"? Are they only empirical?

As I said before, and as you could find in De Saussure's works, language is what our thoughts are made of; you think "blue" and "green" while there are no such things in nature.
Language splits the world into bits, and that's how you perceive it, don't you think?

Of course, no need of language to show emotions, but let's only consider thoughts as "active thinking" or "reasoning".

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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