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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: mathewww]
    #9494681 -

Quote:
Free market capitalism in its prime.



Considering that this is a government owned and ran entity, I would say this has nothing to do with capitalism. So much for knowing what the hell you're talking about, huh?

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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: Ferris]
    #9494683 -

Free market is breeding ground for corruption.


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Word to your mom.

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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: mathewww]
    #9494688 -

mathewww said:
While you all consume your shit for the "holidays" another serious blow is served to Mother Earth and right in Tennessee




DAMMIT!!! If only I hadn't been celebrating Christmas, I could have stopped this!!!!!

:gay:

I love your choice of words... it speaks volumes about your thought processes...

Merry Christmas

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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: Redstorm]
    #9494700 -

Redstorm said:
Quote:
Free market capitalism in its prime.



Considering that this is a government owned and ran entity, I would say this has nothing to do with capitalism. So much for knowing what the hell you're talking about, huh?



Because nothing that is even loosely related to the government can have anything to do with the free market, no not at all.

PS: it's a corporation, not a government agency


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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: Ferris]
    #9494712 -

Of course it doesn't have anything to do with capitalism; it is a government run entity without competition.

PSS: When the fuck did I say it was a agency?

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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: Redstorm]
    #9494715 -

Quote:
1990s
As the electric-utility industry moved toward restructuring and deregulation, TVA began preparing for competition. It cut operating costs by nearly $800 million a year, reduced its workforce by more than half, increased the generating capacity of its plants, stopped building nuclear plants, and developed a plan to meet the energy needs of the Tennessee Valley through to the year 2020.

2000s
TVA has recently made news by again reducing its workforce and by beginning new campaigns to improve its public image.




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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: Redstorm]
    #9494717 -

Just figured I'd clear this debate up:

Quote:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) is a federally owned corporation in the United States created by congressional charter in May 1933 to provide navigation, flood control, electricity generation, fertilizer manufacturing, and economic development in the Tennessee Valley, a region particularly impacted by the Great Depression. The TVA was envisioned not only as an electricity provider, but also as a regional economic development agency that would use federal experts and electricity to rapidly modernize the region's economy and society.




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Word to your mom.

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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #9494723 -

I'm not debating that it's owned by the government, but to assert that for that reason that it has no competition and thus operates outside of the market, is just pure wrong.


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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: Ferris]
    #9494729 -

True, they still operate under free market conditions. The entire government does.


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Word to your mom.

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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: Ferris]
    #9494732 -

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/printarticle.aspx?feed=AP&date=20081224&id=9474349

Quote:
KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) - The Tennessee Valley Authority is working to contain the release of potentially toxic pollutants from the coal-fired Kingston power plant after a breach in an earthen dike released 2.6 million cubic yards of ash from a holding pond.

"I would say we are trying to contain first and recover second," TVA President and Chief Executive Tom Kilgore said Tuesday.

A surface layer of ash was slowly moving down the Emory River from the plant near Harriman, about 50 miles west of Knoxville. TVA hoped to trap it with a temporary dike on the Emory River and a boom farther downstream on the Tennessee River.

State and federal environmental officials were awaiting results of water quality tests. But Kilgore said preliminary TVA tests suggest the millions of people who get their drinking water from the 652-mile Tennessee River shouldn't worry.

"We have no reason so far to know that is unsafe," he told a news conference, noting TVA is working closely with the Tennessee Department of Environmental and Conservation and the federal Environmental Protection Agency. The water intake for the town of Kingston is about six miles downstream of the power plant.

"It is possible it is going to have some metals in there," said Laura Niles, regional spokeswoman for the EPA in Atlanta. Those could include mercury and arsenic.

WBIR-TV reported hundreds of dead shad floating downstream of the plant, but TVA spokesman Gil Francis said the fish kill may have resulted from freezing cold thought to have contributed to the ash pond break that happened around 1 a.m. Monday, not pollutants.

Kilgore said six inches of rain in 10 days also may have contributed to the rupture, estimating that much rainfall would have added about 100 million pounds on top of the 40-acre lagoon that broke.

The lagoon was one of a series of holding areas where ash generated by the plant was dried until it could be buried or recycled for road beds and concrete. The ash piles at times reached 55 feet above the water.

The cause of the breach remained under investigation. Kilgore said leaks were repaired in the retention pond walls in 2003 and 2006, and maintenance problems identified in the pond's last annual review in January were fixed.

About a dozen houses were damaged when a wall of water, ash and mud crashed into scattered residences near the plant — a massive nine-boiler power station that burns 14,000 tons of coal a day and can supply enough electricity to serve 670,000 homes.

Kilgore said three homes were effectively destroyed and TVA would provide those families with long-term housing and other assistance. A new water line was being installed for others in the neighborhood. They were advised to boil drinking water until it was completed.

The ash-laden muck covered up to 400 acres and left a scene of devastation that "looks rather like a moonscape," Kilgore said.

Environmentalists raised concerns. One calculated the toxic coal sludge could have filled 798 Olympic-size swimming pools. "The holiday disaster shows that there really isn't such a thing as a clean coal plant," said Chandra Taylor, staff attorney for the Southern Environmental Law Center.

Lisa Evans, a Massachusetts attorney for the environmental group Earthjustice, said there have been similar spills in Pennsylvannia and Georgia. She blamed the industry and lack of federal regulation.

"The saddest thing is this is entirely avoidable," Evans said. "These people in these communities don't have to be in harm's way. This is not some complicated problem like nuclear waste. This is something the utilities know how to do."

Kilgore said TVA may consider using a dry ash treatment process at Kingston that would reduce the chances of a similar event. Five of TVA's coal-fired plants use a dry ash treatment now; the other six, including Kingston, use a wet process.

But those are decisions that will have to wait until the cleanup is completed in several weeks.

TVA, which supplies electricity to about 8.8 million consumers in Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Kentucky, North Carolina and Virginia, has brought staff and equipment in from around its service territory to work on the recovery 24-7, including Christmas Day, Kilgore said.




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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: Ferris]
    #9494742 -

You still haven't shown there is competition; you've only shown they are preparing for competition sometime in the future based on the news story you supplied.

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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: Redstorm]
    #9494747 -

Also, the point I wanted to address was:

Quote:
Free market capitalism in its prime.



This is fucking nonsense. It is shoddy planning and workmanship in its prime and doesn't inherently have anything to do with any type of economic system.

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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: Ferris]
    #9494748 -

The "competition" is actually the same kind of competition AT&T has.

If you think that AT&T has competition, order a T1 connection sometime, from any provider you wish. AT&T will then contact you to make the installation arrangements.

TVA own the distribution network, and are forced to sell wholesale power to competitors. They still get paid no matter whose name is on your electric bill. It isn't like these 'competitors' are building generating stations and stringing up power lines.

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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: Ferris]
    #9494758 -

Quote:
"The saddest thing is this is entirely avoidable," Evans said. "These people in these communities don't have to be in harm's way. This is not some complicated problem like nuclear waste. This is something the utilities know how to do."



This is the truth right here. Coal plants have been in existence for quite a while now, and methods for disposing of waste have been perfected. The only way an event of this magnitude could happen is if someone wasn't doing their job correctly.


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Word to your mom.

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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: Ferris]
    #9494779 -

Maybe locally it's not getting coverage, but I'm in Oregon and have been hearing about since yesterday.  Sure not the fastest but it was on NPR, and that broadcasts over a very large area here.


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"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey

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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: Srirachi]
    #9494781 -

Today I was photographing mushrooms with my new gripper tripod.  It's awesome.

Life is good for me.  :thumbup:

Sad to hear about those other folks.  Shit happens. :shrug:


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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: Srirachi]
    #9494784 -

I"m not really sure what the particular competitive landscape is for the TVA, nor am I sure as a result how the electrical infrastructure restructuring movement is affecting them.  But none of that seems relevant in the light that this incident was likely the result of a cost-cutting measure in preparation for increased future competition.  If you blindfolded me and didn't tell me the details, it would sound an awful lot like the result of deregulation and unrestricted market forces.


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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #9494791 -

hawksapprentice said:
Maybe locally it's not getting coverage, but I'm in Oregon and have been hearing about since yesterday.  Sure not the fastest but it was on NPR, and that broadcasts over a very large area here.



It wasn't on local news here.  24 hours straight of the socal santa shooting


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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: Ferris]
    #9494794 -

Quote:
this incident was likely the result of a cost-cutting measure in preparation for increased future competition.



This is quite an assumption.

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Re: This dwarfs Exxon Valdez. [Re: Redstorm]
    #9494805 -

Perhaps, time will tell


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