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Olympus Mons
esprit de l'univers
Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 5,777
Loc: ∞
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: PreparationH]
#13977693 - 02/17/11 06:42 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PreparationH said: I haven't seen myself an "End is near" nut in quite some time, probably since 1999 for the Y2K shit. Morons.
the end is near, and it doesnt take a nut to see it.
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I close my eyes and seize it I clench my fists and beat it I light my torch and burn it I am the beast I worship....
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danlennon3
LivingIsEasyWithEyesClosed.....
Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 19,246
Loc: usa
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: Olympus Mons]
#13977981 - 02/17/11 08:51 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Olympus Mons said:
Quote:
PreparationH said: I haven't seen myself an "End is near" nut in quite some time, probably since 1999 for the Y2K shit. Morons.
the end is near, and it doesnt take a nut to see it.
Honestly Id rather it be a natural disaster than a world war. At least it's not gonna be the man that brings us down!
-------------------- "Psychedelics should be used not to escape reality, but to embrace it"
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Micawber
...............................
Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 2,644
Loc: southeast
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: Asante]
#13978002 - 02/17/11 08:59 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: Picture this awesomeness of extreme engineering:
1..take a brown dwarf star 2..build a hollow sphere around it with a hole on one side. 3..build a VAST civilization on the outer surface on the sphere, fueled by the brown dwarf's energy. 4..because of the hole, the brown dwarf/sphere assembly will function as a rocket that has a burn time of hundreds of billions of years. You can steer it by repositioning the sphere's hole, which is the exhaust, and stop it by inverting direction, then closing the hole, and collecting the extra energy. 5..with some of the energy, atoms can be harvested from the interstellar (or intergalactic) medium which you can use to build stuff etc, among them Deuterium and Helium-3 which you can introduce into the brown Dwarf, extending its service life well beyond its natural lifespan 6..enjoy space travel all over the galaxy if not intergalactic space travel for trillions of years, with a civilisation of lets say a hundred billion, stopping occasionally to convert other Brown Dwarves (the most common star of the universe) to similar nomadic civilisations.
Is that epic or wut?
wow i just got like half wood from this idea
i wonder how youd deal with gravity fluctuations as the star depletes fuel though
-------------------- (mik-kaw'-bur) n. one who is poor but lives in optimistic expectation of better fortune
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: Micawber]
#13978029 - 02/17/11 09:10 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Gravity should just slowly diminish, just like it is with the sun right now.
I wonder how he is going to keep the star from crashing into the sphere.
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nice1
Not the droid your looking for
Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: Olympus Mons]
#13978089 - 02/17/11 09:35 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Isn't there an ice age coming as well?
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,296
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: Micawber]
#13978258 - 02/17/11 10:29 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Brown Dwarves last so very long (hundreds of billions of years to about a trillion years) because they don't fuse light hydrogen (protium) but rather only heavy hydrogen (Deuterium) and light helium (Helium-3). They do this at a trickle, so that gravity fluctuations won't really be an issue.
Lets say we have us a beauty of 15 Jupiter Masses. This one will burn off just about all of its Deuterium.
How much is that?
The natural abundance of Deuterium in Jupiter is about 0.03% of its mass. Our little gem of the example would be 15 Jupiter masses, so that would make the Deuterium weight contained 0.45% of a Jupiter mass. Now Jupiter happens to weigh 1.8986×1027 kg so that would mean that the amount of fusion fuel present would be equal to about 1.43x the weight of the entire planet Earth - and this of a fusion fuel with such energy density that 200 grams, just 7 ounces, holds as much energy as a million liters of oil - 5,000 barrels. And remember: we have 8.5 x 1021 tons of that stuff burning off for free!
Now lets pull a figure out of the big hat to make a very conservative estimate of mean energy release. Lets say our little gem will burn for a trillion years (1012Y), it will probably be shorter but never mind
Lets pour this into easier numbers. Mean energy output of our lil gem would be 8.5 billion tons of Deuterium per year. Lets assume an energy efficiency thats crap, comparable to cheap solar panels of today, and that we can capture only 1 billion tons of that annually.
Thats still a lot At 25 million barrels of oil per ton, we're still looking at an annual availability of energy of 25 trillion barrels of oil per year.
Our nomadic dyson sphere has lets say a hundred billion inhabitants, so there's the availability of the usable energy of 250 barrels of oil, per inhabitant, per year. Now this is mean energy, mind you, in the worst case scenario. In the same scenario,during the first 100 billion years or so, you'd easily get 2,500 barrels of oil per inhabitant. That allows for pretty awesome living. Cut back the population to 10 billion and its obviously 25,000 barrels, per person, per head.
And think of it, you won't be in a small cramped space shuttle. You'd have forests the size of continents where all the species of the earth will roam, species alive then, species brought back from extinction and species pulled out of a possible future by genetic engineering.
When a new suitable brown Dwarf is found, its capped by another dyson sphere, part of the population jumps on board and they make a vote: "Will we go our separate way, or will we join the large fleet of nomadic dyson sphere civilizations that roam the milky way galaxy together?"
Each of the nomads will speciate into an alien planet. If you travel between dyson spheres you will end up on entirely different planets, alien to each other except for their origin and method of propulsion.
Tell me thats not a completely awesome way to spend the next trillions of years.
Once the stars burn out, we can refuel our brown Dwarf by visiting burnt out solar systems, taking our brown dwarf star out of the sphere, letting it merge with Jupiter sized gas giants to refuel them, build a new sphere around them and continue our epic adventure for many billions of years more before the next refueling.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,296
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: DieCommie]
#13978278 - 02/17/11 10:34 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I wonder how he is going to keep the star from crashing into the sphere.
Gravity. A properly positioned Dyson Sphere will center the sphere around it and will center itself in the middle of the sphere. Solar wind too would have a centralizing effect.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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DrugsAreFunn
Stranger
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: Asante]
#13978339 - 02/17/11 10:52 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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o.p., wicaan_seeker, you guys blow my mind.
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Penguarky Tunguin
f n o r d
Registered: 08/08/04
Posts: 17,192
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: meatcakeman]
#13978464 - 02/17/11 11:37 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's obviously an alien spaceship.
-------------------- Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.
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PreparationH
apply daily
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: Olympus Mons] 2
#13978538 - 02/17/11 11:56 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nut.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: Asante]
#13978590 - 02/17/11 12:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:
I wonder how he is going to keep the star from crashing into the sphere.
Gravity. A properly positioned Dyson Sphere will center the sphere around it and will center itself in the middle of the sphere. Solar wind too would have a centralizing effect.
But if you let some of that solar wind escape to thrust your system around, that would be a de-centralizing effect would it not?
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mufasa
guerilla grower
Registered: 11/09/09
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Loc:
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: Nordique]
#13978713 - 02/17/11 12:42 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nordique said:
massive brown dwarf?
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Olympus Mons
esprit de l'univers
Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 5,777
Loc: ∞
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: PreparationH]
#13978972 - 02/17/11 01:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PreparationH said: Nut.
that's cool.
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I close my eyes and seize it I clench my fists and beat it I light my torch and burn it I am the beast I worship....
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: DieCommie]
#13983269 - 02/18/11 06:59 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Gravity. A properly positioned Dyson Sphere will center the sphere around it and will center itself in the middle of the sphere. Solar wind too would have a centralizing effect.
But if you let some of that solar wind escape to thrust your system around, that would be a de-centralizing effect would it not?
I'm not sure you could stabilize a Dyson sphere with gravity, but it wouldn't be hard to shoot electrons down the gravity well and then stabilize electrostacticly. Better to use magnetic monopoles though.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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13.step
cynical bastard
Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 2,210
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: Doc_T]
#13983322 - 02/18/11 07:32 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
the end is near, and it doesnt take a nut to see it.
The end is always near you fragile piece of meat and bones held together by feeble electric impulses in an amorphous mass of fat. Now go out and enjoy yourself, thank me later.
Wiccan your theory is interesting, write a book about it, seems like it would make for an awesome sci-fi novel.
--------------------
Not to be taken seriously by any means!
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: Doc_T]
#13983342 - 02/18/11 07:49 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said:
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Gravity. A properly positioned Dyson Sphere will center the sphere around it and will center itself in the middle of the sphere. Solar wind too would have a centralizing effect.
But if you let some of that solar wind escape to thrust your system around, that would be a de-centralizing effect would it not?
I'm not sure you could stabilize a Dyson sphere with gravity, but it wouldn't be hard to shoot electrons down the gravity well and then stabilize electrostacticly. Better to use magnetic monopoles though.
lol wut?
I agree though, I dont think you could stabilize with gravity. But in a case where you arn't 'flying' the thing around the galaxy, I suspect you could actively stabilize it using some type of thrust. But in the case where you are flying it around, you would need thrust equal to the solar wind going out of the hole to stabilize it. Otherwise, the sphere would get accelerated opposite of the star and they would crash into each other.
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: DieCommie]
#13983351 - 02/18/11 07:54 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
wut?
Set up an electron gun, shoot electrons down into the star. At the same time, charge the shell with electrons. Like charges repel, the sphere and the star will not touch. Using magnetic monopoles would have the same effect, but be about 100x cooler because it's magnets.
Can't do it with a ringworld, any axial instability will self-amplify and the star would pop out like a watermelon seed.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: Doc_T]
#13983386 - 02/18/11 08:07 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well, there are no magnetic monopoles... Im not sure what you mean there. Magnetic fields cant exert a force in the same manner as electric fields either.
Charging the star and shell oppositely doesn't seem like it would work to me either. I suspect it would be harmful to life to exist in/on the shell with such a massive electrostatic charge. You might ionize some of your own atoms!lol Such a large charge would be in danger of arcing to, and to prevent that what would you do? Space is easy to arc across, so you would need to fill the space in between your sphere and the sun with some dielectric material... It would be a fun and relatively easy exercise to calculate these things to get a better idea of what they might do.
I think that using some type of thrust on the shell to slow it down would be the best idea. Then the star of course gets trusted around by virtue of its solar wind and the hole.
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: DieCommie]
#13983390 - 02/18/11 08:11 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: Well, there are no magnetic monopoles...
"assume facts not currently in evidence" "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
Not sure how big a charge you'd need... just realized it drops off as the square of teh distance.
Yeah, thrust stabilization it is.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: CNN Reports Massive Brown Dwarf Lurking In Our Solar System [Re: Doc_T]
#13983403 - 02/18/11 08:16 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Not sure how big a charge you'd need... just realized it drops off as the square of teh distance.
Its worse than that actually. A spherical shell cannot exert force inside the shell. That is, if you are inside the shell - you will feel no gravity from the shell. If you are a charged particle inside the shell - you will feel no electric force from the shell. I doesnt matter how big of a gravitational or electric field you make, it doesnt exert a force within a spherical shell.
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