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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: libertaire]
    #9399272 -

Tip:  Barley grains, mixed with a little bit perlite, is by far the best stuff growing Pan.subb. spawn, much better than WBS.


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PSILOCYBE  CYANOFRISCOSA - EUROPE 2009



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11179100

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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: nightflyer]
    #9399282 -

Wow, that's a beautiful picture.


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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: landsnorkler]
    #9399391 -

I question the identity of those European commercial "Pan Subbs".  I've looked pretty carefully at other pictures of the same operation and I am convinced that they are a species of Copelandia, probably Panaeolus cambodginiensis.  Of course I can't be certain without a specimen in hand but they don't really resemble any Panaeolus subbalteatus I've ever seen, cultivated or otherwise.


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Research funded by the patrons of
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Edited by Workman (12/09/08 03:06 PM)

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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: Workman]
    #9399398 -

Workman said:
I question the identity of those commercial "Pan Subbs".  I've looked pretty carefully at other pictures of the same operation and I am convinced that they are a species of Copelandia, probably Panaeolus cambodginiensis.  Of course I can't be certain without a specimen in hand.


they dont look like any subbs i have seen.


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They try to take away everything God gave us,yet...
our money still says "In God We Trust".
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You take a mortal man and put him in control,
Watch him become a God,watch peoples heads a'roll.
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If you kill a man then your a murderer,kill many an your a conqueror, kill them all and your a God.

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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: Workman]
    #9399442 -

Workman said:
I question the identity of those European commercial "Pan Subbs".  I've looked pretty carefully at other pictures of the same operation and I am convinced that they are a species of Copelandia, probably Panaeolus cambodginiensis.  Of course I can't be certain without a specimen in hand but they don't really resemble any Panaeolus subbalteatus I've ever seen, cultivated or otherwise.



Take a closer look at the stipes. They are VERY typical of Panaeolus subbalteatus!
[image]http://[/image]


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PSILOCYBE  CYANOFRISCOSA - EUROPE 2009



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11179100

Edited by nightflyer (12/09/08 04:24 PM)

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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: nightflyer]
    #9399500 -

...of?

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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: nightflyer]
    #9399558 -

I think they look more like the stipes of these Blue Helix Pan cambos.  They are both active species of Panaeolus so some similarities should be expected.



--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply

My Instagram
Reinvesting Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:

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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: libertaire]
    #9399577 -

Yup thats the operation I was thinking of. Those look like many subbs I have found. I have noticed that subbs come in many different varieties. Especially since cultivated things look a bit different then wild ones. Those stems look exactly the same, and I have even found many wild specimins that had caps just like that, very bleached looking.

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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: nightflyer]
    #9399582 -

Quote:
I question the identity of those European commercial "Pan Subbs"


I thought the same thing for a second but after I stared at it for awhile I decided maybe they could be.

Quote:
They are VERY typical!


Now that you post that other picture I agree more with Workman.  The stems on these are too pruinose to be Panaeolus subbalteatus and are lacking the vertical lines.  They are also not reddish enough.  Also the caps are too light of a color given the humidity that must be in the FC.  Also the cap shape and the way it develops matches Copelandia better. 

Awesome picture though.

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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: nightflyer]
    #9399707 -

Quote:
Workman said:
I question the identity of those European commercial "Pan Subbs".  I've looked pretty carefully at other pictures of the same operation and I am convinced that they are a species of Copelandia, probably Panaeolus cambodginiensis.  Of course I can't be certain without a specimen in hand but they don't really resemble any Panaeolus subbalteatus I've ever seen, cultivated or otherwise.


I would like to see those side by side with overly mature caps.

Lipa

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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #9399724 -

I think the problem is that under cultivation, Copelandian species can be more robust than the typical wild specimens.  This makes them somewhat resemble Panaeolus subbalteatus in overall proportions but still not in the finer details as mentioned by Alan.  This is opposite the contention that cultivated Paneolus subbalteatus resemble Copelandia.


--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply

My Instagram
Reinvesting Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:

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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #9399819 -

The pale color of the cap is irritating, maybe caused by low air humidity. Panaeolus subbalteatus is widespread here in Switzerland and I have found almost white specimen during hot weather. These shrooms were grown in Holland and  the guys told me that the fruiting temps were between 64 F and 68 F. In my opinion that's impossible for Panaeolus cambodginiensis. But maybe it's  a mutation?  :-)


--------------------
PSILOCYBE  CYANOFRISCOSA - EUROPE 2009



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11179100

Edited by nightflyer (12/09/08 04:38 PM)

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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: nightflyer]
    #9399953 -

Quote:
The pale color of the cap is irritating, maybe caused by low air humidity


Yes that is a big factor in the color of the cap. I have noticed this with the bispora. In very wet conditions the cap can almost go to black brown, and in lower moisture the cap can be almost cream. The temperature is also I belive another factor. The longer or slower the fruit takes to fully mature at higher or lower temps the darker or lighter it can become when mature. This is the case with cultivated and natural settings.To compare two you might have to fruit them in the same conditions side by side. I think this is why when I showed workman the pictures for the first time of the natural settings he thought there were multiple species.

Lipa

Edited by lipa (12/09/08 04:29 PM)

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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: lipa]
    #9400316 -

I have read multiple sources on that "subb grow" and they each had different pictures and each said they got to see the growing and each said that they were subbs. Here is a few pictures of different varieties of subbs I found this spring. The stems on subbs will look like that if they are growing in a very protected environment ex indoors. All that dusty looking stuff on the outside in the above picture gets rubbed off in rain and grass and wind. Ive found some that were very secluded and protected that were really white and powdery like that, you couldnt see any lines or red.





Look at the stems on these









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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: nightflyer]
    #9400371 -

nightflyer said:
coolboarderguy said:
I am with you, Ive got so many spores it would be tight to cultivate. I remember reading some article that over seas they are cultivating subbs by the thousands. And subbs are supposed to be the weed mushroom. So there must be some easy trick to growing them.



Panaeolus subbalteatus cultivation in Europe.
[image]http://[/image]


It seems odd that none of the mature specimens have plane, wavy caps.  All of the mature specimen in the terrarium earlier in the thread developed wavy caps.  I don't see any evidence of dark bands around margins, as typically seen in subbalteatus.  You'd think there would be at least a few in that picture.  Why would they advertise these as subbalteatus?


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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: landsnorkler]
    #9400487 -

Foe
Foe
Subb
Bispora
Bispora
Bispora
Bispora
If I didn't know better I wouldn't know what the heck I was looking at

Edited by lipa (12/09/08 05:42 PM)

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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: landsnorkler]
    #9400519 -

One of the articles I saw it in was all about subbs, they were talking about how to identify them and also how they are easy to cultivate because they are considered the "weed" mushroom.  The pictures I have of those wavy capped ones, even the smaller unmature ones at that location were wavy, and Ive found extremly mature full grown ones at different locations that have no wave what so ever. Subbs have a great variance. The lack of ring is a bit suspicious though. But could be a different variety of subbs that tend not to have rings. I know ive found a whole area where almost all the subbs I found had no rings and were white, They were NOT even dried out like what you would expect, they were fresh but albino looking. Extremly potent compared to most other subbs I found. Even the caps turned pretty blue. I am also positive they were subbs.

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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: coolboarderguy]
    #9400781 -

Lets say that temp,humidity, sun or no sun, rain beaten, brush rubbed, and phenotype has a lots to do with the way a mushroom looks. 68 degrees is pretty cold for a Subb so maybe they would look a little different in that picture if they were say... grown at 75-85 degrees. If a mushroom takes more time to mature couldn't it make more color or less color or more psilocybin or psilocin and stain so light as to see a mild color change.  I'll tell you..... I have grown a lot of mushrooms that were the same genetically at different parameters and they looked totally different. I got a lot of shit when I posted a picture of a mazatapec cube grow I did where the clones were gigantic and they wouldn't believe they were actually mazatapecs. They were.... and some of the other strains I worked with from the same print looked exactly like a common mazatapec cube. When you show a picture of a mushroom that can fruit in a wide spectrum of parameters they will almost certainly look different at those different parameters. Just look at the difference in a person that smokes crack and a person who is strait and narrow. I would imagine mushrooms can be the same way due to the substrate they are eating.  Also Just the slightest amount of difference in the size of water vapor in the air can make for a different looking stem because it has to work harder when the water vapor size is large compared to small.

Just a few examples or way of thinking about it for you.
Lipa

Edited by lipa (12/09/08 06:22 PM)

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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: lipa]
    #9401706 -

Environmental conditions definitely affect macroscopic features of Panaeolus subbalteatus.
This has been stated many a time, but it never hurts to state it again.

Subbalteatus caps are hygrophaneous, so their color lightens as they dry.
These look similar to the mushrooms in the grow...
these received a lot of sun, and low humidity
Day temps 50's-60's.  Night temps 40's-50's.
very few dark bands around margins, light caps, very few getting wavy in maturity...


From the same patch, these were slightly more shaded...
faint banding around margin

At a different patch about a mile away...
Growing in tall grass, shaded, high humidity...
Day temps. 50's-60's.  Night temps.  40's-50's
Dark bands around margin, caps more plane
long, pale stipes.


Same patch, in the sun...
Bands around margins faint
short, reddish stipes

Terrarium
high humidity, room temperature
dark bands around margins, caps becoming plane to wavy
long stipes



I'm still not sure what's in those pictures...
could be subbalteatus, could be something else.
The light caps in the dark environment seems a little odd.


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Edited by landsnorkler (12/09/08 08:38 PM)

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Re: Subbalteatus Infestation [Re: landsnorkler]
    #9401827 -

So just fresh hpoo and straw, moisture and light then wait and see huh?

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