Prisoner#1 said:

zouden said:

>overall crime or violent crime... there's a difference

Both are lower.

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nope. you can believe what you want but the fact is percapita violent crime is higher than the US, how many shootings have there been in australia in the last 12 years? I recall 2 in 2002 in one night... pretty crappy for a no-gun crime country

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zouden said:

Prisoner#1 said:

zouden said:

>overall crime or violent crime... there's a difference

Both are lower.

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nope. you can believe what you want but the fact is percapita violent crime is higher than the US, how many shootings have there been in australia in the last 12 years? I recall 2 in 2002 in one night... pretty crappy for a no-gun crime country

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Hmm, I couldn't find stats for violent crimes in general, but for murders per capita:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

#24  United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people
#43  Australia: 0.0150324 per 1,000 people
(A 3-fold difference)

And for murders with firearms:
#8  United States: 0.0279271 per 1,000 people
#27  Australia: 0.00293678 per 1,000 people
(A 9-fold difference)

We're too busy looking out for snakes and spiders I guess

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zouden said:

Hmm, I couldn't find stats for violent crimes in general, but for murders per capita:

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Quote:

In the year 2002/2003, over 85% of firearms used to commit murder were unregistered.[16] In 1997-1999, more than 80% of the handguns confiscated were never legally purchased or registered in Australia.[17] Knives are used up to 3 times as often as firearms in robberies.[18] The majority of firearm related deaths involved the use of hunting rifles, with their share being most pronounced in firearm suicides.[15]

According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics [1], in 1985-2000, 78% of firearm deaths in Australia were suicides, yet only 5% of suicides involved firearms. The suicide rate has only fluctuated, not statistically changed, from 1993-2003. However, recent published studies such as www.gunfacts.be [2] indicate an important increase of the suicide rate for adult men, in the 3 years after the introduction of the strict gun legislation. In the 5 years following the introduction of the strict gun legislation, 427 extra suicides took place compared to the suicide rate of 1996.

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zouden said:

mushroomhunter10 said:

That's B.S.
If you looked at the actual statistics then you'd see the real truth. Violent crimes go UP when citizens are disarmed. Not necessarily murder, but violent crime most certainly. In The U.K. and Australia statistics favor my argument.

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We have a lower crime rate than the US, thank you very much.

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Quote:

If these things don't dissuade your opinions then you're just being stubborn!

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Redstorm said:

If you truly believe that the dollar is going to be changed or some lunacy along the same lines, I'll give you good odds. How about 3:1? Good enough?

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Sounds good. I'm not saying it will be. However, there will be an attempt. Guaranteed.

$10 bucks. I win you owe me $30.

Did you even watch the videos of Ron Paul?? He knows man. He's an insider.