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Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings?
    #8734309 -

Have a bunch of sawdust just waiting to get colonized, only problem is, it's from a lumber yard that also cuts vinyl/pvc type boards.

Anyone care to comment on the safety of this sawdust as substrate?

EDIT: concerned because of possible plastic shavings within the substrate.

Edited by kybish (08/06/08 03:00 PM)

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: kybish]
    #8734351 -

The thing I'd be concerned about most is storing this concoction away from flame sources, as it sounds like a recipe for a fire hazard that most people wouldn't think about.  Other than that, a little PVC won't hurt anything.

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: Sillicybin]
    #8734424 -

hmm, would this mean I'd have to be careful when pc'ing (more specifically oven pasteurization)?

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: kybish]
    #8734463 -

As far as a fire hazard, no.  As long as it's wet, it won't catch fire.

PVC will, however, melt at above 176*F.  Since most PC's operate at 250*F, it might make a mess.

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: Sillicybin]
    #8734580 -

good to hear, hope the pvc won't melt through my oven bags. :smile:

haha, kinda funny to see you say the oven tek is crap in your sig when I asked about it. Are you referring to something specific about the oven tek, or oven pasteurization in general?
EDIT: wow I'm dumb :tongue: (see post below)

I've always liked oven pasteurization for large quantities, as I can fit a shit-ton of bags into my oven.

Edited by kybish (08/06/08 03:59 PM)

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: kybish]
    #8734594 -

HAHAHA.  :lol:


The "oven-tek" was a tek involving using the oven as a source of heated air, and you'd inoculate your jars over the draft of the open oven.  It's very ineffective, and usually caused more problems than it solved.

Using the oven for pasteurization is completely different!

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: Sillicybin]
    #8734602 -

Sillicybin said:
HAHAHA.  :lol:


The "oven-tek" was a tek involving using the oven as a source of heated air, and you'd inoculate your jars over the draft of the open oven.  It's very ineffective, and usually caused more problems than it solved.

Using the oven for pasteurization is completely different!


LOL

never would've expected oven tek to mean anything close to that

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: kybish]
    #8735426 -

I've got to say there is a considerable risk of PVC getting into your mushrooms. Despite what this compadre says mushrooms will pick up many poisonous contaminants from substrates. PVC is a well known carcinogen and all around bad plastic, I would search for other sawdust sources that would not contain significant amounts of the substance, make no mistake you will be eating it if you put it in your sub.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #8735976 -

shit, looks like my search for sawdust continues

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: kybish]
    #8736334 -

think sawmill if you got one. A agricultural supplies store may have  large bales of sawdust as well, but make sure not to get cedar. In fact it's probibly better off that you didn't get the lumberyard stuff just to make sure you didn't get any cedar either. It's poisonous to many humans, animals molds and fungi.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #8739688 -

ScavengerType said:
Despite what this compadre says mushrooms will pick up many poisonous contaminants from substrates.


Got a reference for this?  If I recall, Paul Stamets said the exact opposite.

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: Sillicybin]
    #8742278 -

well a friend of mine who was taking an advanced land management course (last spring) said opposite, that mushrooms gather many pollutant chemicals from their substrate. How old is Paul Stamentses book "The Mushroom Cultivator" if that is in fact what you are citing? I'm pretty sure that it's copyright 1983 making whatever he says out of date by 25 years vs. my friend's advice.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

Edited by ScavengerType (08/08/08 02:08 AM)

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #8742383 -

Poly-vinyl-carbonate is a petrol product isn't it? if so it may lead to some deformities in the shrooms, given that heated PVC will melt and fumigate your entire substrate with the chemicals... and petrol products cause nasty deformities in shrooms (such as reverse gills and etc)


--------------------
My Kratom Experience

>>::(My Garden - Updated 6-16-09!)::<<
(Nelumbo Nucifera) - (Desmanthus Illinois) - (Delosperma Cooperi)
(Coleus) - (Morning Glory H.B.) - (Klip Dagga) - (Nicotiana Rustica)
(Sinicuichi) - (Mimosa Hostilis)

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #8742668 -

ScavengerType said:
I'm pretty sure that it's copyright 1983 making whatever he says out of date by 25 years vs. my friend's advice.


It wasn't from his book - it was from his (fairly) recent research into finding ways to use mushrooms as natural decomposers.  At the time, he was advocating a way to turn our scrap organics in landfills into something usable.  I'll see if I can find a reference.

The above poster may be correct - if the PVC actually breaks down during sterilization, it's possible the products may cause genetic damage to the mycelium.  That is one thing I didn't think about - good call.

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: Sillicybin]
    #8742725 -

Quote:
Paul Stamets said:
Oyster mushrooms can do other amazing things. They produce enzymes that can break carbon-hydrogen bonds, so we were involved in a series of research experiments to determine if we could use oyster mushrooms to clean up hydrocarbon-saturated soils after oil spills. We participated in a competitive trial against four other companies that used more conventional remediation technologies in Bellingham, Washington, to break down diesel-contaminated soil. Each company was given a pile of contaminated soil to work with. We mixed our oyster mushrooms in the contaminated soil, and four weeks later everyone came back to look at each pile. The bacterial people still had a stinky pile; the people using enzymes still had a stinky pile; the company using chemical remedies had a stinky, lifeless pile. They came back to our pile and pulled back the tarp, and it was covered by hundreds of oyster mushrooms. The oyster mushrooms were perfectly edible - they were delicious.


http://www.bioneers.org/node/1504

Oyster mushrooms are not cubensis, obviously, but many of the enzymes produced may be the same - I doubt there's been much research on it though.

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: Sillicybin]
    #8742965 -

Maybe he didn't consider the fact that you would be eating it. Yea mushrooms may break it down but the fact is if they are growing in a landfill would you be consuming them?

probably not.


btw didn't read your source so i may be wrong but w/e.


--------------------
"Fuck it too much Im outta wittbhjkhbhkjsrglhkrgl g I DEE JEUD."
-Because it made sense on xanax and booze...

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: willowmp]
    #8743364 -

An excerpt from an email to fungi perfecti

Quote:
I would not recommend using that substrate for mushroom cultivation. Actually I would recommend not using it for anything.. It probably cost that company to properly dispose of that contaminated material, hence the reason they would love to give it away free..

Jim Gouin
Fungi Perfecti LLC


Doesn't specifically say it would be dangerous, but enough to make me look elsewhere.

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: kybish]
    #8743946 -

I agree with Jim at fp.

Use clean sawdust.  You'll want to pressure cook it because sawdust is a fairly lame substrate without supplementation with wheat, rice or oat bran.  When using grain or bran based supplements, you need to sterilize, not pasteurize, and at those temps the pvc will make a sticky mess of your substrate.  I can't speak firsthand for the danger issue, but the clump of melted plastic in your sawdust will be enough to toss out that idea.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: Safety of sawdust with pvc shavings? [Re: kybish]
    #8744200 -

Quote:
Oyster mushrooms can do other amazing things. They produce enzymes that can break carbon-hydrogen bonds, so we were involved in a series of research experiments to determine if we could use oyster mushrooms to clean up hydrocarbon-saturated soils after oil spills.


Hate to break it to you but dude isn't growing Oysters on sawdust. Staments's tests are on Oysters, because of the above quote they could did break down the diesel-contaminated soil. However, this isn't conclusive on PVC since he did not say anything about tests on PVC. So maybe even Oysters won't break down PVC their molecular structures are quite different, though from the above quote it sounds likely they would, no testing has been done to confirm this. The original poster is not growing Oysters on sawdust because people don't bother getting sawdust just to grow Oysters. No Oysters = No enzyme that breaks down carbon hydrogen bonds.

You will also note that he says the mushrooms were edible, not that he tested them to verify if they had any carcinogens remaining from the substrate. Either he didn't test them (making assumption the enzyme broke it all down) or didn't feel it was worth writing about.

Don't get me wrong I'm definitely excited to read some of the things Staments is saying in this paper, but it hardly backs up your point. Sorry if I sounded condescending earlier when I assumed you were quoting TMC it's just his most commonly cited peace of work.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

Edited by ScavengerType (08/08/08 01:31 PM)

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