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Phred said:
Don't forget Nader.

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YawningAnus said:
wow, you really dont understand politics at all do you... maybe you should go hang out in MRP with that retarded nonsense.

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YawningAnus said:
I could give a shit less about either candidate, but this cant be the entire story.

no one says "Lets debate"... there have to be some other parameters that arent being talked about.
Debates are pretty rigged... look at the questions Ron Paul got in comparison to the other candidates questions...

Is it possible that Obama didnt want to go to these debates in "McCains home turf"?

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lonestar2004 said:
IMO Obama thinks he has this election won and is playing prevent defense...

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In other words, he is playing politics. I love it when politicians play politician and everyone is like OMG look at the politician!

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johnm214 said:
Bob Barr for me

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Recognizing Barr's precarious situation, the Libertarian Party seized on the opportunity to oust one of the federal drug war's most vocal proponents (Barr), and ran TV ads criticizing Barr's opposition to medical marijuana.

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Prisoner#1 said:

oh, wait a second... topple the republican and make him the
libertarian presidential nominee, I'm sure all his opinions have
changed and he's love to see the drugs flow freely and illegal
aliens shipped back to which ever country they came from.

Barr doesnt believe in freedom, he believes in slavery to jesus

In Congress, he also controversially proposed that the Pentagon ban the practice of Wicca in the military.

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Ummm ok i see you have real good argument? What most people do when they can t back up anything. name call.

1. its a dead heat right now obama lost a 10% lead in less the a week.

2.obama has lost FL and Ohio is leaning more to McCain.

3. in the battle ground states it's ether with in error or only 5% ahead.

All this after the big world tour???
McCain had no press said little during obama dog and pony show and it's a dead heat right now???
And you really think he wants to have none formated Q&A with MCCAIN in town hall meeting??please Mccain will kill him. even every press outlet says this.

What hurt obama??

1.the comment about guns and religion lost PA my home state.He will most likely lose PA again.

2."inflate tires and tune ups".you can even hear the crowed at that speech give him a nerves laugh and applause, which meant"what did he say"?.+Dem run congress not voting on energy up or down vote. People know if obama is president gas will go over 5$ gal avg Jan or Feb maybe spring? HE HAS NO ENERGY PLAN. #1 issue right now.

3. not stopping for hour or two with troops at rammstien. he should have went no matter what.+ he made three different reason why he did not go?

4. He did not say "i was wrong about the surge in iraq". when asked 4 times by whats her name from cbs?he still did not give an answer I would have said "i was wrong about the surge and i will review my policy about this in the future military action. but this still does not mean we should have gone in."bla bla bla.

5.Big no no playing race card. McCain knew he do it and he did.People dont like that crap.

My point in two weeks McCain will be ahead by 5-8% national. then after Dem convention obama will make it tie. then McCain has shi-ding and it will be 10% McCain. McCain wins 15-20% next president.

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YawningAnus said:
wow, you really dont understand politics at all do you... maybe you should go hang out in MRP with that retarded nonsense.

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johnm214 said:
A vote for barr is a vote for the libertarian agenda, which he's advocated.

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Why you'd even say such a thing is beyond me

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its a dead heat right now obama lost a 10% lead in less the a week.

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obama has lost FL and Ohio is leaning more to McCain.

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in the battle ground states it's ether with in error or only 5% ahead.

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the comment about guns and religion lost PA my home state.He will most likely lose PA again.

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HE HAS NO ENERGY PLAN. #1 issue right now.

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He did not say "i was wrong about the surge in iraq". when asked 4 times by whats her name from cbs?he still did not give an answer I would have said "i was wrong about the surge and i will review my policy about this in the future military action. but this still does not mean we should have gone in."bla bla bla.

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Big no no playing race card. McCain knew he do it and he did.People dont like that crap.

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My point in two weeks McCain will be ahead by 5-8% national. then after Dem convention obama will make it tie. then McCain has shi-ding and it will be 10% McCain. McCain wins 15-20% next president.

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Prisoner#1 said:

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johnm214 said:
A vote for barr is a vote for the libertarian agenda, which he's advocated.

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so you believe that illegals should be granted amnesty? with
jobs becoming more scarce and even they're out of work, what
kind of improvement will this make in the US

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Why you'd even say such a thing is beyond me

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it's a complete u-turn from his previous stance as a republican

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johnm214 said:
I don't know his stance on illegal immigration, but i support plans such as bush's.  Barr wants to just pardon everyone?

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I don't like that, and I don't really support the whole open border libertarian credo, but it isn't enough of an issue for me to care. 

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Unlike the democrats and republicans, the libertarian message is pretty clear.

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When the democrats and republicans see they need third party voters to get a majority, and not the sheep who vote party lines without considering the candidates, they just may start changing how elections laws are, and might just start revising their posititions.

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I heard in their legislature their are some small parties with a few guys in their that certainly don't have enough power to pass laws, but have enough to be corted on contentious issues- such that they can demand additions or compromise.

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This is how democracy with third parties can and hopefully will work some day.  There is no reason we can't have different parties.

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Someone who simply represents the will of the people is fine as a legislator, though maybe not preferable.

I'm more inclined to believe this run reflects his true beliefs

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* Double the police resources available for crime prevention without any additional government spending.

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deadmeat986 said:


. Obama blowed his load too quick and he lost the race. mccain did not win it.

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right, all McCain has to do is continue breathing and he will walk easily into the white house.




“a light will shine down from somewhere. It will alight upon you. You will experience an epiphany and you will say to yourself, I have to vote for Barack.”

Barack Obama

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zouden said:

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* Double the police resources available for crime prevention without any additional government spending.

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I can see it now... "This police helicopter brought to you by Subway. Eat Fresh!"

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which may actually halve the crime rate

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johnm214 said:
I think its pretty clear that this presumes that they would like to eliminate victimless crimes, which may actually halve the crime rate.

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I know few who wish to buy stolen cars/guns/ et cet.

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hey, look we cut crime by 63% in one year

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YawningAnus said:
didnt I just see on the news that Obama wants to sell 70 million barrels out of our reserves?
  The economy is a burning car teetering on the edge of a cliff and in a few months it will tumble down the hill in a fiery heap.
The economy has been falsly propped up by the fed and speculation regarding corporate bailouts... we should have been in a recession fall of last year.
whoever takes over this upcoming term has nothing to do but fail miserably.
 

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Prisoner#1 said:

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johnm214 said:
I think its pretty clear that this presumes that they would like to eliminate victimless crimes, which may actually halve the crime rate.

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well of course, that's the fastest way for the libertarians to
say "hey, look we cut crime by 63% in one year, increase our
power and we can do more next year"

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Prisoner#1 said:

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johnm214 said:



Unlike the democrats and republicans, the libertarian message is pretty clear.

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if you like fantasy land, it's quite clear

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When the democrats and republicans see they need third party voters to get a majority, and not the sheep who vote party lines without considering the candidates, they just may start changing how elections laws are, and might just start revising their posititions.

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do you really think the Republicrats are going to change
election laws? do you honestly think that a 3rd party is going
to be any different than what we have now... as it stands the 2
major parties get matching campaign funds, the others get shit,
the 2 parties get equal air time (well, that's what they claim)
and everyone else gets dick... what exactly is gonna change and
how do they plan to do it... it's just like the whole 'double
the number of cops on the street, update their equipment, reduce
taxes and eliminate the drug war bullshit... there's nothing
there but smoke

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I heard in their legislature their are some small parties with a few guys in their that certainly don't have enough power to pass laws, but have enough to be corted on contentious issues- such that they can demand additions or compromise.

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Libertarianism will always be a fringe political movement
because if its internal contradiction: Libertarianism’s core
philosophy is about devolving power; but as a political
movement, it is concerned with acquiring power. This is an
inescapable dichotomy for libertarianism as a political
movement, and helps explain why voters who love freedom refuse
to vote for libertarian political candidates.

Libertarianism’s greatest strength is as an intellectual
movement. As a political movement, libertarianism forever
insists upon presenting socially inept, mildly extremist
candidates who argue that their outrageous, often rigid
positions on political issues are based upon ‘principle.’
But if ‘principle’ actually guided the libertarian candidate,
then why is s/he seeking power?

We have a higher percentage of libertarians holding seats in
congress and the senate and yet they still dont have enough
power to influence the vote, I wonder if the fact that in the
last presidential election almost 60% of the libertarians voted
republican and 36% voted democrat...

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I don't see the contradiction between trying to get power and using that power to limit government.  Again, I don't care whether you predict bad things will happen down the road with libertarian-oriented politicians, and I really don't see the point.  Power corrupts, so what?  If you've forgot, you get to choose who you vote for every year.  If you don't like the guy, don't vote for him.

What is the contradiction between principle and power?  I don't understand the basis for this critique at all.  What extremist views are you talking about, and why should I care?  How does that relate to who I vote for for president? 

What is this higher percentage of libertarians holding seats in congress and the senate?

Congress includes the senate, and who are the libertarians?  I guess you're not talking about the party, but about whomever you consider to be one?  Ok... who are they?

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This is how democracy with third parties can and hopefully will work some day.  There is no reason we can't have different parties.

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real change comes from within, do away with the parties, these
alliances are what's making sure more shit laws get passed
instead of the enforcement of the laws we have, do we need 8
ways of saying killing is illegal? Force candidates to seek
their own campaign funding, quit sucking it from the treasury
unless it's spread across ALL the candidates and file suit
against media outlets that arent giving equal time to each of
the candidates

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Someone who simply represents the will of the people is fine as a legislator, though maybe not preferable.

I'm more inclined to believe this run reflects his true beliefs

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nothing changes, it's the same shit with a different shovel,
they all claim to be representatives of the people, they all
support special interest, that being their own interests

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pothead_bob said:

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hey, look we cut crime by 63% in one year

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Nobody is stopping the dems and republicans from doing the same thing and making the same claim.

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The Libertarian Party's anti-crime plan would do what the Democrats and Republicans have not done:

    * Respect the victim's rights and make criminals pay full restitution.

HOW? in prison they earn no money and how do you pay restitution for rape, murder or child molestation?

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Order it.  Obviously you can't get blood from a stone, and it is misleading to claim anyone will make anyone do something they cannot.

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[    * Reduce the number of criminals at large on our streets.

Double Durrr. I suppose twice as many cops with twice as much shiny stuff will do that, what about the cops that are criminals, what about eliminating the criminals holding public office

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I've allready discussed this.  What is your complaint about politicians, that they didn't mention them?  You think they are for corruption or something?

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    * Defend the most effective crime deterrent available, the private ownership of guns.
YAY!!! they're gonna over rule the supreme court and tell us we can have guns

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If you think you need to overrule the supreme court to allow gun ownership you've not been following the decisions of the court in regards to gun possesion.  There is no need to overrule anything whatsoever- what are you talking about?

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* Create jobs, end welfare dependence, and improve education.
how... how the hell are politicians going to create jobs with it being a welfare dependency, how will they improve education if it doesnt involve getting the feds out of schools

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You cannot directly create jobs, but the theory is that if you remove barriers to market entry and allow free associations and contract there will be more jobs as well as more flexibility for employers and employees to make contracts that work for them.  I don't think this is a bad presumption, do you?

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pinkfloydms said:
I also keep trying to figure out what Texas puts in the water to make you people so sheepish?

"I'm a Cowboy!!"

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Maybe Redstorm knows (i think he lives in Houston Texas.)

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Maybe he's conservitive in comparison to Obama.

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A lot of people say so, but I wouldn't say he's as liberal as Dennis Kucinich. 

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Phred said:

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A lot of people say so, but I wouldn't say he's as liberal as Dennis Kucinich. 

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It has been determined from his voting record that he's the most liberal senator there. Even whackjob Kucinich doesn't vote as consistently Libbie as Obama.

Now, it could very well be that his voting record doesn't reflect the "inner Obama", but it is an objective and verifiable metric by which to determine - from his actions - his Liberalness.




Phred

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