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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8720480 - 08/03/08 07:06 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Bob Barr seems kind of sketchy to me considering his history, but not any more sketchy than Obama and McCain.

I wish I could get over Nader's views on nuclear power.

It'd be nice to see all these people in a debate together.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8720664 - 08/03/08 07:50 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

how exactly does someone his age do a complete 180 on all their political ideologies


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8720669 - 08/03/08 07:52 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I mean, I guess it's possible, but I just don't know about him.  I think he'd bring some of that baggage with him if he was somehow elected.

Maybe if he took a bong rip with me... :bongload:


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


Edited by pothead_bob (08/03/08 07:53 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8720692 - 08/03/08 07:58 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

it tells me more about the libertarian party, knowing they support amnesty for illegals, as he did when he was a republican and now hes in with the libertarians and suddenly doesnt want mass deportation but does want tighter security at the border

30 million 'extras' in this country that are shipping billions of
dollars across the border via money transfer every year... sure
sounds like he knows how to help the economy


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8720703 - 08/03/08 08:01 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Wait, he supported amnesty before, but doesn't now?

What's the libertarian view on illegal immigrants, generally?  Send them back or grant them citizenship?


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8720877 - 08/03/08 08:39 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

the libertarian party says give them amnesty, clinton allowed 12
million to have citizenship without anything more than
documenting that they had been here for a certain amount of time,
the declaration made at the time was that there would be no more
amnesty.

here it is again, not 15 years later and the numbers are triple,
once the announcement that another amnesty may be granted, they
came over in droves, so now we have an untold number of illegals
leaching off the failing welfare and health care systems while
americans both black and white are having difficulty getting
assistance through these lean times...

look at what corporate america has been doing with jobs



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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8720885 - 08/03/08 08:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I think it was Reagan with that amnesty deal.  Yet another reason why I refuse you to deify the doddering dope.


--------------------


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8720930 - 08/03/08 08:50 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

they both had given amnesty to illegals, there were 7 amnesties
altogether, regan had one, clinton did six


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InvisibleaDoS
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8720938 - 08/03/08 08:52 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

score one for the good guys

go mccain

obama is too racially handicapped to debate God


--------------------
"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
:drooling:GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH:drooling:


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8721174 - 08/03/08 09:54 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:

oh, wait a second... topple the republican and make him the
libertarian presidential nominee, I'm sure all his opinions have
changed and he's love to see the drugs flow freely and illegal
aliens shipped back to which ever country they came from.

Barr doesnt believe in freedom, he believes in slavery to jesus

In Congress, he also controversially proposed that the Pentagon ban the practice of Wicca in the military.





Yeah, what do I care what he believes?


I would prefer another candidate, and I may vote for one when I do more research, but I think I'll vote for barr.


A vote for barr is a vote for the libertarian agenda, which he's advocated.  I would prefer a stronger candidate history, but he's explained adequatly his beliefs on federal drug control.

And I really don't give a shit if he wants drugs flowing freely, nor do I care about his belief in jesus.  Why you'd even say such a thing is beyond me


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Offlinedeadmeat986
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #8721531 - 08/03/08 11:04 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Ummm ok i see you have real good argument? What most people do when they can t back up anything. name call.

1. its a dead heat right now obama lost a 10% lead in less the a week.

2.obama has lost FL and Ohio is leaning more to McCain.

3. in the battle ground states it's ether with in error or only 5% ahead.

All this after the big world tour???
McCain had no press said little during obama dog and pony show and it's a dead heat right now???:rofl2:
And you really think he wants to have none formated Q&A with MCCAIN in town hall meeting??please Mccain will kill him. even every press outlet says this.

What hurt obama??

1.the comment about guns and religion lost PA my home state.He will most likely lose PA again.

2."inflate tires and tune ups".you can even hear the crowed at that speech give him a nerves laugh and applause, which meant"what did he say"?.+Dem run congress not voting on energy up or down vote. People know if obama is president gas will go over 5$ gal avg Jan or Feb maybe spring? HE HAS NO ENERGY PLAN. #1 issue right now.

3. not stopping for hour or two with troops at rammstien. he should have went no matter what.+ he made three different reason why he did not go?

4. He did not say "i was wrong about the surge in iraq". when asked 4 times by whats her name from cbs?he still did not give an answer I would have said "i was wrong about the surge and i will review my policy about this in the future military action. but this still does not mean we should have gone in."bla bla bla.

5.Big no no playing race card. McCain knew he do it and he did.People dont like that crap.

My point in two weeks McCain will be ahead by 5-8% national. then after Dem convention obama will make it tie. then McCain has shi-ding and it will be 10% McCain. McCain wins 15-20% next president.


:piss:
Quote:

YawningAnus said:
wow, you really dont understand politics at all do you... maybe you should go hang out in MRP with that retarded nonsense.


:piss:

  :bye:


--------------------

"Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assalent, "If I live I will kill you, if I die you are forgiven". Such is the Rule of Honor."


Edited by deadmeat986 (08/03/08 11:10 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: johnm214]
    #8721811 - 08/04/08 12:08 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
A vote for barr is a vote for the libertarian agenda, which he's advocated.




so you believe that illegals should be granted amnesty? with
jobs becoming more scarce and even they're out of work, what
kind of improvement will this make in the US


Quote:

Why you'd even say such a thing is beyond me




it's a complete u-turn from his previous stance as a republican


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Invisiblethedefone
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: deadmeat986]
    #8721860 - 08/04/08 12:26 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Most of your contentions are little more than a regurgitation of Republican party talking points.  Your problem is that you just parrot them without bothering to figure for yourself whether or not they are true.

Quote:

its a dead heat right now obama lost a 10% lead in less the a week.



In a head to head, nation-wide race.. which as anyone with a high school diploma should know, means absolutely nothing.  Look at any electoral map, and you'll see a very different story.

Quote:

obama has lost FL and Ohio is leaning more to McCain.



Has Obama really lost Florida, or has he made significant gains due to the fact that McCain hasn't spent one penny there? (link)

Quote:

in the battle ground states it's ether with in error or only 5% ahead.



Wrong.  In the traditional battleground states of Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan Obama is leading in two, leaving Ohio as very close.  Pennsylvania, despite your blind assertion to the contrary, is leaning quite heavily toward Obama, where he has led in every poll since late April (link).  Obama has led in every poll of Michigan voters since the end of May (link).

What hurt Obama?

Quote:

the comment about guns and religion lost PA my home state.He will most likely lose PA again.



How long ago was that?  5 months?  It's hurting Obama today why?  Get a clue.  Obama never had a chance against Clinton in Pennsylvania, yet he only lost by 9 points despite having trailed by 17 only a month prior to the primary and the commencement of active campaigning in the state.   

Quote:

HE HAS NO ENERGY PLAN. #1 issue right now.



Obama and McCain will both vote for the Gang of Ten compromise.  Do you know what that is?  It seems that when it comes to votes in the Senate, McCain and Obama will have the same energy plan.

Quote:

He did not say "i was wrong about the surge in iraq". when asked 4 times by whats her name from cbs?he still did not give an answer I would have said "i was wrong about the surge and i will review my policy about this in the future military action. but this still does not mean we should have gone in."bla bla bla.



You seem to dismiss that he was right about not going to war in the first place.  There would have been no war in Iraq.  Furthermore, the surge's role in the resultant stability in Iraq is less than direct.  Petraeus' generalship is the great achievement, not the public's naive interpretation of the "surge" as categorically administrative. 

Quote:

Big no no playing race card. McCain knew he do it and he did.People dont like that crap.



The daily news cycle is meaningless and only appeals to those with the attention span of a gnat; not to mention those only looking for news that appeals to their own preconceived notions.  Congratulations..  That's you!

Quote:

My point in two weeks McCain will be ahead by 5-8% national. then after Dem convention obama will make it tie. then McCain has shi-ding and it will be 10% McCain. McCain wins 15-20% next president.



You are totally insane.  You do realize that when Reagan beat Mondale in '84, carrying 49 states, that was an %18 margin popularly, right?  Make insane predictions, I don't care.  When I can understand what you're talking about, they make me laugh.  Just realize that they are not even remotely based in reality.


--------------------


I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8722592 - 08/04/08 04:15 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
A vote for barr is a vote for the libertarian agenda, which he's advocated.




so you believe that illegals should be granted amnesty? with
jobs becoming more scarce and even they're out of work, what
kind of improvement will this make in the US


Quote:

Why you'd even say such a thing is beyond me




it's a complete u-turn from his previous stance as a republican





I don't know his stance on illegal immigration, but i support plans such as bush's.  Barr wants to just pardon everyone?

I don't like that, and I don't really support the whole open border libertarian credo, but it isn't enough of an issue for me to care. 

I don't think anyone will look at a percentage Barr gets and think "wow, those folks are sure for amnesty".


Unlike the democrats and republicans, the libertarian message is pretty clear.  I'm sure one day, if the party gets more support, it will be diluted and wrecked like the dem/rep party, but untill then, I feel confident my vote is understood.

I doubt it is likely, but I've even heard some folks are worried the few votes Barr will get will hurt McCain.  This kinda stuff, in theory, is why you don't need to win elections to influence politics and government.  When the democrats and republicans see they need third party voters to get a majority, and not the sheep who vote party lines without considering the candidates, they just may start changing how elections laws are, and might just start revising their posititions.

I've heard israel is a good example of this, but don't know... I heard in their legislature their are some small parties with a few guys in their that certainly don't have enough power to pass laws, but have enough to be corted on contentious issues- such that they can demand additions or compromise.

This is how democracy with third parties can and hopefully will work some day.  There is no reason we can't have different parties.  Though I disagree with the green party strongly, I really hope they amp up their support, so we get some real competition for both dem and rep voters.




And yes, I realize Barr has done a 180, and that he was/is a shameluss huckster, but I'm not neccesarily opposed to that.  Someone who simply represents the will of the people is fine as a legislator, though maybe not preferable.


I'm more inclined to believe this run reflects his true beliefs, given I can't imagine being a libertarian candidate means much to anyone, but I don't know.  But then I normally don't buy into the hype around career politicians like we've seen with clinton and obama... They're all just polling and talking while trying to say as little as possible while inducing the most positive emotional response to their nonstatements....


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: johnm214]
    #8722953 - 08/04/08 08:34 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
I don't know his stance on illegal immigration, but i support plans such as bush's.  Barr wants to just pardon everyone?





the libertarian party wants to grant them amnesty and apparently leave the borders open
http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration
we can change our immigration law to more closely conform to how millions of normal people actually live.

Quote:

I don't like that, and I don't really support the whole open border libertarian credo, but it isn't enough of an issue for me to care. 




30 million people have jumped the border, displacing 7 million
from their jobs and eliminating the opportunity for a better
life to those that were born here because they were seeking
something better for themselves, they've come here without
health screenings and have brought a mirriad of diseases with
them that have virtually been eliminated in this country,
in my opinion, it's biological warfare



Quote:

Unlike the democrats and republicans, the libertarian message is pretty clear.




if you like fantasy land, it's quite clear
The Libertarian Party's anti-crime plan would do what the Democrats and Republicans have not done:

    * Respect the victim's rights and make criminals pay full restitution.


HOW? in prison they earn no money and how do you pay restitution for rape, murder or child molestation?

    * Hold all criminals responsible for their actions.

Durrr... isnt that the purpose of laws

    * Double the police resources available for crime prevention without any additional government spending.

wait... what? double the cops, equip them with more junk just so we can have twice as many incompetents saying "I'll take a report" or "I hadda kill him, he wasnt complying with my orders"

[    * Reduce the number of criminals at large on our streets.

Double Durrr. I suppose twice as many cops with twice as much shiny stuff will do that, what about the cops that are criminals, what about eliminating the criminals holding public office


    * Defend the most effective crime deterrent available, the private ownership of guns.

YAY!!! they're gonna over rule the supreme court and tell us we can have guns
 
* Create jobs, end welfare dependence, and improve education.

how... how the hell are politicians going to create jobs with it being a welfare dependency, how will they improve education if it doesnt involve getting the feds out of schools


Quote:

When the democrats and republicans see they need third party voters to get a majority, and not the sheep who vote party lines without considering the candidates, they just may start changing how elections laws are, and might just start revising their posititions.




do you really think the Republicrats are going to change
election laws? do you honestly think that a 3rd party is going
to be any different than what we have now... as it stands the 2
major parties get matching campaign funds, the others get shit,
the 2 parties get equal air time (well, that's what they claim)
and everyone else gets dick... what exactly is gonna change and
how do they plan to do it... it's just like the whole 'double
the number of cops on the street, update their equipment, reduce
taxes and eliminate the drug war bullshit... there's nothing
there but smoke


Quote:

I heard in their legislature their are some small parties with a few guys in their that certainly don't have enough power to pass laws, but have enough to be corted on contentious issues- such that they can demand additions or compromise.




Libertarianism will always be a fringe political movement
because if its internal contradiction: Libertarianism’s core
philosophy is about devolving power; but as a political
movement, it is concerned with acquiring power. This is an
inescapable dichotomy for libertarianism as a political
movement, and helps explain why voters who love freedom refuse
to vote for libertarian political candidates.

Libertarianism’s greatest strength is as an intellectual
movement. As a political movement, libertarianism forever
insists upon presenting socially inept, mildly extremist
candidates who argue that their outrageous, often rigid
positions on political issues are based upon ‘principle.’
But if ‘principle’ actually guided the libertarian candidate,
then why is s/he seeking power?

We have a higher percentage of libertarians holding seats in
congress and the senate and yet they still dont have enough
power to influence the vote, I wonder if the fact that in the
last presidential election almost 60% of the libertarians voted
republican and 36% voted democrat...


Quote:

This is how democracy with third parties can and hopefully will work some day.  There is no reason we can't have different parties.




real change comes from within, do away with the parties, these
alliances are what's making sure more shit laws get passed
instead of the enforcement of the laws we have, do we need 8
ways of saying killing is illegal? Force candidates to seek
their own campaign funding, quit sucking it from the treasury
unless it's spread across ALL the candidates and file suit
against media outlets that arent giving equal time to each of
the candidates


Quote:

Someone who simply represents the will of the people is fine as a legislator, though maybe not preferable.

I'm more inclined to believe this run reflects his true beliefs




nothing changes, it's the same shit with a different shovel,
they all claim to be representatives of the people, they all
support special interest, that being their own interests


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8722978 - 08/04/08 08:50 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

* Double the police resources available for crime prevention without any additional government spending.



I can see it now... "This police helicopter brought to you by Subway. Eat Fresh!"


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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Offlinedeadmeat986
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: thedefone]
    #8723649 - 08/04/08 01:15 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

ummm ok whatever. i flip around my xm during the day in my art studio air america talk radio cnn fox msnbc.
www.rasmussenreports.com, gallup. and your links you give me are with in or just outside of error?? give me a break. Did you hear obamas speech on energy at noon in mich? he bla bla bla for 20 min about nothing no clear plan what he do.

I don t like mccain who cares. but i'm telling you obama should be ahead 10-15% right now in most of the battle ground states he's not. Obama blowed his load too quick and he lost the race. mccain did not win it. like i said 15-20% mccain want put some money on that?

lol heres the odds. obama is 2/5 mccain 7/4 and anything can happen in a horse race. but obamas the one out there talking getting the fan fair.More room for a trip in the finally bend. McCain by 15%


--------------------

"Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assalent, "If I live I will kill you, if I die you are forgiven". Such is the Rule of Honor."


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: deadmeat986]
    #8723757 - 08/04/08 01:37 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I'll take the 15% popular election count on even odds if you're so sure.


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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: deadmeat986]
    #8723867 - 08/04/08 01:57 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

deadmeat986 said:


. Obama blowed his load too quick and he lost the race. mccain did not win it.





right, all McCain has to do is continue breathing and he will walk easily into the white house.




“a light will shine down from somewhere. It will alight upon you. You will experience an epiphany and you will say to yourself, I have to vote for Barack.”

Barack Obama

:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Obama backs away from McCain's debate challenge [Re: zouden]
    #8724711 - 08/04/08 04:27 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Quote:

* Double the police resources available for crime prevention without any additional government spending.



I can see it now... "This police helicopter brought to you by Subway. Eat Fresh!"




I think its pretty clear that this presumes that they would like to eliminate victimless crimes, which may actually halve the crime rate.  If the cities and states want to keep the same number of cops employed, for whatever reason, that might double the effective police presence an resources for real crime, like theft, assault, et cet, and do away with huge expenditures on stopping folks from doing/ selling drugs.  When the selling of drugs is legal with appropriate consumer protections laws ( like purity, dosage, et cet being displayed on the package and enforcable via private suit), the criminal elements that deal drugs will loose their monies and easy flow of cash.


I know many folks who do illicit drugs.  I know few who wish to buy stolen cars/guns/ et cet.


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