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OfflineDan
newbie
Registered: 05/11/01
Posts: 187
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84571 - 04/08/00 01:19 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Sounds like a great idea Psychonaught! Just one question, what is the chemical makeup of these "water crystals"? Do they pose any possible health risks?

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OfflinePsychonaut
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Registered: 12/18/98
Posts: 407
Loc: Vancouver Island, Canada
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84573 - 04/08/00 02:23 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I?m not quite sure of the chemical make-up of these Crystals. They a make out of some sort of polymer plastic.
I do know that are normally used as an additive to soils, to help water retention. Many people are starting to use them in soils that grow vegetables, so I can?t see any heath risk being associated with them

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"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." J.M.

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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84574 - 04/08/00 02:51 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Well, our lord and savior Paul Stamets mentions the use of polymers in his books, so it can't be that bad... I am curious about their use in pan cyan or trop casing... I know there require a casing, but I am unsure if this is because they require the presence of those wonderful beneficial bacteria contained in casing... If this isn't the reason, then polymers might be the answer to preventing contamination in these species, which is always a problem.. Hell, you could even use a dilute peroxide solution...

ThE JafF



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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84575 - 04/08/00 03:18 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

If these benificial bacteria live on acetone and alcohol byproducts of the mycellium then adding a very small ammount acetone to the polymers might give them the substrate they need. NOTE I said very small amount very water diluted. Acetone dissolves most plastic so too much might make a mess of the polymers (water crystals). This much would prob kill the mycellium as well.

I am going to try these polymers. They have been used successfully in PF cakes as a substitute for verm (If I remember correctly). Best tek might be to use rye on perlite cased with these polymers.

I gotta try it :biggrin:



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Invisiblesolidstate
journeyman
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 56
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84576 - 04/09/00 02:01 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

how about soaking peat moss in some water, discarding the peat, & using the water to hydrate the crystals? this should provide the famed "stimulatory microrganisms"...


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Offlineyounger now
old hand
Registered: 07/17/99
Posts: 243
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84577 - 04/09/00 11:53 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

solidstate, for some reason, that sounds like a good idea!


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OfflinePsychonaut
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Registered: 12/18/98
Posts: 407
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Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84578 - 04/09/00 10:57 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Well, I have seen Pan Cyans grow without casing before. I also have seem Pan Trops grown with sterilized casing layers before. So, I will have to assume that both Pan cyan and Pan trop dont need the beneficial bacteria to fruit.
This should make a interesting future experiment.

------------------
"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." J.M.

Northern Touch Spores



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InvisibleCondi1
old hand
Registered: 01/01/00
Posts: 502
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84579 - 04/10/00 01:22 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Very interesting!,
Have oft thought about polymer crystals as a moisture retentive additive to provide extra moisture for prolonging fruiting runs. Will have to look into further. Believe you can only go up to a certain moisture level before maxing out with negative return. Guess amounts and mixture levels would have to be played with a bit. Can also see possibilities for typical jar colinization mixes, if proves safe. Again, some playing with ratios would be needed, but interesting all the same. Thanks for bringing idea back to mind. Nice to see some actual results for a change. First I have come across yet. Nothing conveys results as real life experience and pics! Thanks! :smile:
Have run into some info regarding safety aspects. If I can find, will post back here. Nothing of serious note comes to mind from previous research, though could be wrong.
Peace

[This message has been edited by Condi1 (edited April 10, 2000).]



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Invisiblerebelmoon
enthusiast
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 204
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84580 - 04/10/00 01:37 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

where do you get this stuff and how much is it? that is the deciding factor for me (and most people i presume).
if it is at all expensive, it would be good to experiment with how well it works as a mixture, rather than by itself. it has an immediate drawbakc over peat moss in that it does not harbor beneficial bacteria.
-daniel.


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"habit is the ballast that chains the dog to its vomit" - s beckett


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OfflinePsychonaut
seeker

Registered: 12/18/98
Posts: 407
Loc: Vancouver Island, Canada
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84581 - 04/10/00 02:33 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Rebelmoon - You can get water crystals at most plant nursery stores. It?s a little expensive, but remember that little bit goes a long way. You shouldn?t need more then a table spoon per casing, so you won?t need to buy very much. If your planning to use it in a mixture, make sure you mix in the water crystals dry, then add water. It hard to mix these water crystal with anything when they are wet.

Condi1 - Make sure you keep us updated on any info you find


------------------
"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." J.M.

Northern Touch Spores



--------------------
FungusFun.com


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Invisiblerebelmoon
enthusiast
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 204
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84582 - 04/10/00 10:38 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

woah. one tablespoon per casing? did i hear that right? how large of a casing?
damn i gotta get some of that shit. much more manageable than huge bags of vermiculite and peat moss.
-daniel.


--------------------
"habit is the ballast that chains the dog to its vomit" - s beckett


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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84583 - 04/11/00 09:23 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

well some insights using water polymers...
Add some fine activated charcoal powder to the casing.. the activated charcoal mimics the action of bacteria pseudomona putida... add also some peroxide to prevent contams... someone said that water crystals dont support contams... well i have seen contams in polymers sometimes...
Nacho


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OfflinePsychonaut
seeker

Registered: 12/18/98
Posts: 407
Loc: Vancouver Island, Canada
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84584 - 04/11/00 01:26 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

rebelmoon - I use about a table spoon of water crystals per 6" by 6" casing. I usally have a bit left over.
Nacho - It was Paul Stamets who said that, which I found when I researched these cystals

------------------
"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." J.M.

Northern Touch Spores



--------------------
FungusFun.com


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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84585 - 04/11/00 02:01 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Nacho: How much charcoal do you put in your casing? For example... X amount for 1 quart of casing soil... Better yet, if you have used charcoal and polymers, please post of your experience with that.

Thanks
ThE JafF



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Invisiblerebelmoon
enthusiast
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 204
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84586 - 04/11/00 11:02 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

ooh this is so cool!
-daniel.


--------------------
"habit is the ballast that chains the dog to its vomit" - s beckett


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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84587 - 04/12/00 09:16 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

hi... i usually use about 3% to 5% of activated charcoal in casings.. i never have used it with polymers.. only with clasical 50%verm 50%peat moss casing


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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84588 - 04/12/00 01:18 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I'm gonna try this. In what layer of the casing should one put the water crystals?


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OfflinePsychonaut
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Registered: 12/18/98
Posts: 407
Loc: Vancouver Island, Canada
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84589 - 04/13/00 01:24 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Shroomism - Casing only refers to the top layer. Therefore, there is only one casing layer, which is the layer that covers your substrate.

------------------
"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." J.M.

Northern Touch Spores



--------------------
FungusFun.com


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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84590 - 04/13/00 03:16 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Well to give everyone an idea of the price.. I located polymers in my area today..

1 lb $12
3 lb $31

So that ain't that bad.. You can get activated charcoal in the aquarium section of ANY dept store and most grocery stores... Health food stores have it powdered and capsulated, but it costs a hell of a lot more... Once my crimini spawn is ready I am going to try this... Should be a few weeks though...

ThE JafF



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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84591 - 04/13/00 02:31 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I always case with dung so could I put a thin layer of dung over the mycellium and then put the water crystals over that?


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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