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OfflineDan
newbie
Registered: 05/11/01
Posts: 187
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics)
    #84571 - 04/08/00 01:19 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Sounds like a great idea Psychonaught! Just one question, what is the chemical makeup of these "water crystals"? Do they pose any possible health risks?

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OfflinePsychonaut
seeker

Registered: 12/18/98
Posts: 407
Loc: Vancouver Island, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84573 - 04/08/00 02:23 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I?m not quite sure of the chemical make-up of these Crystals. They a make out of some sort of polymer plastic.
I do know that are normally used as an additive to soils, to help water retention. Many people are starting to use them in soils that grow vegetables, so I can?t see any heath risk being associated with them

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"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." J.M.

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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84574 - 04/08/00 02:51 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Well, our lord and savior Paul Stamets mentions the use of polymers in his books, so it can't be that bad... I am curious about their use in pan cyan or trop casing... I know there require a casing, but I am unsure if this is because they require the presence of those wonderful beneficial bacteria contained in casing... If this isn't the reason, then polymers might be the answer to preventing contamination in these species, which is always a problem.. Hell, you could even use a dilute peroxide solution...

ThE JafF



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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84575 - 04/08/00 03:18 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

If these benificial bacteria live on acetone and alcohol byproducts of the mycellium then adding a very small ammount acetone to the polymers might give them the substrate they need. NOTE I said very small amount very water diluted. Acetone dissolves most plastic so too much might make a mess of the polymers (water crystals). This much would prob kill the mycellium as well.

I am going to try these polymers. They have been used successfully in PF cakes as a substitute for verm (If I remember correctly). Best tek might be to use rye on perlite cased with these polymers.

I gotta try it :biggrin:



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Invisiblesolidstate
journeyman
Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 56
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84576 - 04/09/00 02:01 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

how about soaking peat moss in some water, discarding the peat, & using the water to hydrate the crystals? this should provide the famed "stimulatory microrganisms"...


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Offlineyounger now
old hand
Registered: 07/17/99
Posts: 243
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84577 - 04/09/00 11:53 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

solidstate, for some reason, that sounds like a good idea!


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"My Brain Hurts!!!!".....Monty Python :crazy:


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OfflinePsychonaut
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Registered: 12/18/98
Posts: 407
Loc: Vancouver Island, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84578 - 04/09/00 10:57 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Well, I have seen Pan Cyans grow without casing before. I also have seem Pan Trops grown with sterilized casing layers before. So, I will have to assume that both Pan cyan and Pan trop dont need the beneficial bacteria to fruit.
This should make a interesting future experiment.

------------------
"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." J.M.

Northern Touch Spores



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InvisibleCondi1
old hand
Registered: 01/01/00
Posts: 502
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84579 - 04/10/00 01:22 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Very interesting!,
Have oft thought about polymer crystals as a moisture retentive additive to provide extra moisture for prolonging fruiting runs. Will have to look into further. Believe you can only go up to a certain moisture level before maxing out with negative return. Guess amounts and mixture levels would have to be played with a bit. Can also see possibilities for typical jar colinization mixes, if proves safe. Again, some playing with ratios would be needed, but interesting all the same. Thanks for bringing idea back to mind. Nice to see some actual results for a change. First I have come across yet. Nothing conveys results as real life experience and pics! Thanks! :smile:
Have run into some info regarding safety aspects. If I can find, will post back here. Nothing of serious note comes to mind from previous research, though could be wrong.
Peace

[This message has been edited by Condi1 (edited April 10, 2000).]



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Invisiblerebelmoon
enthusiast
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 204
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84580 - 04/10/00 01:37 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

where do you get this stuff and how much is it? that is the deciding factor for me (and most people i presume).
if it is at all expensive, it would be good to experiment with how well it works as a mixture, rather than by itself. it has an immediate drawbakc over peat moss in that it does not harbor beneficial bacteria.
-daniel.


--------------------
"habit is the ballast that chains the dog to its vomit" - s beckett


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OfflinePsychonaut
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Registered: 12/18/98
Posts: 407
Loc: Vancouver Island, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84581 - 04/10/00 02:33 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Rebelmoon - You can get water crystals at most plant nursery stores. It?s a little expensive, but remember that little bit goes a long way. You shouldn?t need more then a table spoon per casing, so you won?t need to buy very much. If your planning to use it in a mixture, make sure you mix in the water crystals dry, then add water. It hard to mix these water crystal with anything when they are wet.

Condi1 - Make sure you keep us updated on any info you find


------------------
"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." J.M.

Northern Touch Spores



--------------------
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Invisiblerebelmoon
enthusiast
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 204
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84582 - 04/10/00 10:38 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

woah. one tablespoon per casing? did i hear that right? how large of a casing?
damn i gotta get some of that shit. much more manageable than huge bags of vermiculite and peat moss.
-daniel.


--------------------
"habit is the ballast that chains the dog to its vomit" - s beckett


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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84583 - 04/11/00 09:23 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

well some insights using water polymers...
Add some fine activated charcoal powder to the casing.. the activated charcoal mimics the action of bacteria pseudomona putida... add also some peroxide to prevent contams... someone said that water crystals dont support contams... well i have seen contams in polymers sometimes...
Nacho


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OfflinePsychonaut
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Registered: 12/18/98
Posts: 407
Loc: Vancouver Island, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84584 - 04/11/00 01:26 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

rebelmoon - I use about a table spoon of water crystals per 6" by 6" casing. I usally have a bit left over.
Nacho - It was Paul Stamets who said that, which I found when I researched these cystals

------------------
"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." J.M.

Northern Touch Spores



--------------------
FungusFun.com


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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84585 - 04/11/00 02:01 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Nacho: How much charcoal do you put in your casing? For example... X amount for 1 quart of casing soil... Better yet, if you have used charcoal and polymers, please post of your experience with that.

Thanks
ThE JafF



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Invisiblerebelmoon
enthusiast
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 204
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84586 - 04/11/00 11:02 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

ooh this is so cool!
-daniel.


--------------------
"habit is the ballast that chains the dog to its vomit" - s beckett


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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84587 - 04/12/00 09:16 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

hi... i usually use about 3% to 5% of activated charcoal in casings.. i never have used it with polymers.. only with clasical 50%verm 50%peat moss casing


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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84588 - 04/12/00 01:18 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I'm gonna try this. In what layer of the casing should one put the water crystals?


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OfflinePsychonaut
seeker

Registered: 12/18/98
Posts: 407
Loc: Vancouver Island, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84589 - 04/13/00 01:24 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Shroomism - Casing only refers to the top layer. Therefore, there is only one casing layer, which is the layer that covers your substrate.

------------------
"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." J.M.

Northern Touch Spores



--------------------
FungusFun.com


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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84590 - 04/13/00 03:16 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Well to give everyone an idea of the price.. I located polymers in my area today..

1 lb $12
3 lb $31

So that ain't that bad.. You can get activated charcoal in the aquarium section of ANY dept store and most grocery stores... Health food stores have it powdered and capsulated, but it costs a hell of a lot more... Once my crimini spawn is ready I am going to try this... Should be a few weeks though...

ThE JafF



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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84591 - 04/13/00 02:31 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I always case with dung so could I put a thin layer of dung over the mycellium and then put the water crystals over that?


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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84592 - 04/13/00 09:12 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Sup ya'll? I got an e-mail from watercrystals and they said they were perfectly safe.

Hello, person. Thanks for your inquiry on Water Crystals[tm].

The product is completely non toxic. All Water Crystals do is absorb and
store water. For plants. For trees. Turf. Vegetables. Field crops. And
for application in a variety of industries. Side benefits include improve
soil, growing media and less watering.

You can find a copy of Water Crystals material safety data sheet at this
URL:
http://www.watercrystals.com/MSDS.htm

Please let us know if we can help.

Sincerely,

James Fullen
Customer Service, C-Gro Ag Corp
888-599-7141 [719.599.7141]
customerservice@watercrystals.com www.watercrystals.com



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OfflinePsychonaut
seeker

Registered: 12/18/98
Posts: 407
Loc: Vancouver Island, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84593 - 04/14/00 01:41 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

MC Face - I can?t see any reason why you couldn?t place water crystals over your dung casing. But, to avoid any problems I would let the dung casing colonize first, then add the water crystal layer.

Sporez - Great job - Thanks for taking the time to find and post this information.

------------------
"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." J.M.

Northern Touch Spores



--------------------
FungusFun.com


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OfflineboOM
Female User Gallery

Registered: 06/26/99
Posts: 5,364
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84594 - 04/14/00 05:26 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

hi i purchased a 9oz bag of those water crystals (it came out to $22.50 plus shipping and handling for me :/ doesn't seem like it's good to buy it there if u're a foreigner like me), and if you were to look at it's FAQ like page...it says that water crystals can even be put into the freezer to be frozen and can be used as icecubes in drinks. so for all those worrying about consumption of the shrooms, it seems like water crystals is a great alternative for casing. great job psychonaut! :biggrin:


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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84595 - 04/17/00 12:07 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Psychonaut: I am wondering if the mycelium is supposed to grow up through the crystals lika it would a normat casing, or does the fruit form just below and grow up through?

ThE JafF



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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84596 - 04/17/00 05:33 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

It all sounds good. Where do you get water crystals at Psycho?


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OfflinePappaKaps
enthusiast
Registered: 03/30/00
Posts: 315
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84597 - 04/17/00 05:47 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Very pretty...........makes my mouth water.


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OfflinePsychonaut
seeker

Registered: 12/18/98
Posts: 407
Loc: Vancouver Island, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84598 - 04/18/00 01:13 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Jaff - It works just like a normal casing. It grow up through the crystals.
I've added a couple new pics to the below link so you can see how it works. http://www.geocities.com/bfixxer/documents/Ploytec/index.htm

Agent - You get them at plant nursery stores.

------------------
"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." J.M.

Northern Touch Spores



--------------------
FungusFun.com


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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84599 - 04/18/00 01:43 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

using the watercrystals as casing, was watering still required? if so could you give us an estamate of how often?

------------------
"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints."



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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84600 - 04/18/00 04:26 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you... I am trying this method with a dilute peroxide added and I hadn't noticed anything growing up to the top of the crystals yet (it had only been two days) amd I was concerned, but tonight it seems to have started... The extra pictures look great by the way... I am trying this with chantarelles and activated charcoal in the very near future...

ThE JafF



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OfflinePsychonaut
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Registered: 12/18/98
Posts: 407
Loc: Vancouver Island, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84601 - 04/19/00 01:56 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Father Mushroom - Watering is still needed,but less often as the water crystals hold a very large amount of water. The amount of watering, depends on the conditions you are growing at. But, in a properly humidified chamber, you should only needed to water once per flush. When the water crystals start shrinking, then it time to add a bit of water.

Jaff - keep us posted on your results

------------------
"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." J.M.

Northern Touch Spores



--------------------
FungusFun.com


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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84602 - 04/19/00 09:53 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

sweet shit Psychonaut. do you simply spray it on and the crystals soak it up, or do you have to fully rehydrate the cystals by resoaking them?

------------------
"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints."



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OfflinePsychonaut
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Registered: 12/18/98
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Loc: Vancouver Island, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84603 - 04/19/00 02:03 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Simply spraying them with a mist is good enough. But, don't spray things to much, you don't want the substrate gettting too wet.

------------------
"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." J.M.

Northern Touch Spores



--------------------
FungusFun.com


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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84604 - 04/19/00 05:07 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

can u use crystals on the cakes themselves w/no other casing
and can u reuse this stuff


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Offlinecrispy
enthusiast
Registered: 12/24/98
Posts: 147
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84605 - 04/19/00 09:18 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

What a great idea! These crystals are also available at marijuana grow shops. Guerilla gardeners use them for the outdoor grow show :smile:


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OfflinePsychonaut
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Registered: 12/18/98
Posts: 407
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Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84606 - 04/20/00 12:21 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

psyco - I would recomend crumbling the cake, then putting the cyrstal on top. These crystals can be used with or with-out other casings. They work great with-out any other casing.
These crystals can not be reused.

------------------
"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." J.M.

Northern Touch Spores



--------------------
FungusFun.com


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OfflineGrimace
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Registered: 04/05/00
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Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84607 - 04/20/00 01:51 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Would it be possible for the water that the crystals absorb to be loaded with nutrients prior. This would give a constant flow of good nutrition to the fungus. Just a thought.

Grimace



--------------------
"Is there anyway of knowing........which direction we are going?!! Yes!"
Mr. Wonka


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OfflinePsychonaut
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Registered: 12/18/98
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Loc: Vancouver Island, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84608 - 04/21/00 12:36 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Loading the crystals with nutrients would cause contamination on the casing layer. The reason that water crystals are favorable for casing is that they do not get contaminated. Adding nutrients would change all this.

------------------
"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." J.M.

Northern Touch Spores



--------------------
FungusFun.com


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Anonymous

Re: Casing with Water Cyrstals (w/pics) [Re: Dan]
    #84609 - 04/21/00 04:05 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I wonder if anybody's ever cased straw or birdseed with these?


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