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Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over
    #8146789 -

WASHINGTON - Michigan Democrats agreed Friday to push a do-over primary in early June to give them a say in the close presidential race between Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama.



Amid talks with the two campaigns, the four Michigan Democrats said in a statement they were "focusing on the possibility of a state-run primary in early June which would not use any state funding." Rep. Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, one of the Democratic participants, said a likely date is June 3.

"This option would require the passage of legislation by the state legislature, and we look forward to working with the members of the legislature in the coming days to see if this option can be made a reality," the Democrats said.

Other Michigan Democrats working on the plan were Democratic National Committee member Debbie Dingell, Sen. Carl Levin and United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger.

Mark Brewer, chairman of the Michigan Democratic Party, said the potential privately funded primary was "a good first step" toward seating the state's delegation at the Democratic National Convention.

The agreement now hinges on getting the campaigns and party officials to approve legislation, still being written, that would set the primary for early June. In the statement, Brewer said party leaders would need to write legislation "that is acceptable to the MDP and both the Clinton and Obama campaigns."

To go forward, any plan would require the approval of the two campaigns, the Democratic National Committee, state party leaders and Gov. Jennifer Granholm, who is backing Clinton. Brewer said a revised delegate plan would also need to be approved by the state party's executive committee and the DNC's rules and bylaws committee.

Michigan Democrats need to act quickly because the politically divided legislature will have to sign off on the deal and approve how to spend the privately raised funds for a new election. Members of the Democratic-controlled state House and Republican-controlled state Senate leave at the end of the month on their two-week spring break.

The contest must be held by June 10 for the results to count under DNC rules.

The national party punished Michigan and Florida for moving up their primaries before Feb. 5, stripping them of all their delegates. The two states have been struggling to come up with alternative plans to ensure their delegates are seated at the national convention this summer in Denver.

Florida Democrats said they will make a decision by Monday on whether to hold a dual mail-in and in-person re-vote. But the plan floated this week faces opposition from the state's Democratic congressional delegation, and Obama has also expressed concerns about security and accuracy of a mail-in vote organized so quickly. Democratic National Committee rules require the vote to be scheduled by June 10.

Separately, Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson, who backs Clinton, has suggested one options — seating all the Florida delegates already chosen but only giving them half a vote each. Nelson discussed this idea with Clinton and Obama on the Senate floor Thursday, according to an aide, but no commitments were made.

Based on the Jan. 29 results, Clinton would have won 105, Obama 67 amd John Edwards 13. Instead they would get half those delegate votes.

Florida DNC member Jon Ausman on Friday filed an appeal to the rules committee asking that the state's 23 superdelegates and half its at-large delegates be restored. He argued that party rules say superdelegates "shall" be seated and that the punishment for holding an early primary is losing half the at-large delegates.

"They far exceeded their authority by giving us the death penalty," Ausman said.

While party rules at the time the primary date was moved did say that states would lose half their delegates, the rules committee later voted to strip Florida of all its delegates. Florida had 210 delegates, including 185 pledged delegates.

Michigan held its primary Jan. 15 and Florida voted Jan. 29. Clinton won both, although she was the only major candidate on the Michigan ballot.

Kilpatrick said although she is optimistic, Detroit City Clerk Janice Winfrey has expressed concern they may not have the time or manpower to pull it off. She said they are trying to work through those issues.

Both campaigns said they would evaluate the plans. Obama spokesman Bill Burton said the campaign hoped "a resolution can be arrived at that is fair and practical."

Former Michigan Gov. James Blanchard, the co-chairman of Clinton's Michigan campaign, said they were "looking at this with great interest ... it has some great possibilities."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080314/ap_on_el_pr/primary_scramble


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8147454 -

I don't see why everyone is so eager to let them have a "do-over" when they broke the rules in the first place.

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: adrug]
    #8147580 -

Because it's not the Michigan voters' fault that the rules were broken.

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: Redstorm]
    #8147900 -

:thumbup:

Yep, I'll be voting Barack, that is if the two campaigns agree and the state legislature say I can.


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8147933 -

Election day 'do-overs'... great precedent... :nonono:

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: Redstorm]
    #8147984 -

Redstorm said:
Because it's not the Michigan voters' fault that the rules were broken.



then they should accept what their complacency got them in the first place
and take action in the next election cycle to get the douchebags that fucked
them removed from office.

why are elections in america so fuct?


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: afoaf]
    #8148009 -

Dude, when have you ever gotten a group of politicians do ask your permision before they voted on something our news coverage didn't even tell us about.

No one even knew about the vote to move the primary up to challenge them.

It's not the elections, but the people that run/control them.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: adrug]
    #8148218 -

> I don't see why everyone is so eager to let them have a "do-over" when they broke the rules in the first place.

Because there are 336 (I think) delegates between Michigan and Florida and the race is to close to call. Kinda lame that the party can't stand by their own decision... but typical of politics in general.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: Seuss]
    #8148786 -

It's a pragmatic decision as well.

Disenfranchising the entire populations of two large and important swing states six months before a general election that you have a very good chance of winning would be absolutely idiotic.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8148869 -

Especially in MI where McCain is polling 3 points ahead of both Dems.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8149138 -

are you implying that dill, for example, would have gone and voted
McCain, even as a democrat, if his primary ballot wasn't to be counted?

that's specious reasoning at best.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: afoaf]
    #8149145 -

Yes, but it's not unlikely that would-be Obama primary voters would decline to show up if Hillary won the nomination.

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: Redstorm]
    #8149177 -

I see.

So then not having your primary ballot counted would make you more
inclined to not vote at all?

I'm still not really feeling it.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: Redstorm]
    #8149179 -

No not dill. No way.

However, because the dems didn't campaign here, the average voter thinks they don't care about my state. This isn't true, the dems need MI. Without MI the dems could be in for a hell of a fight.

Even my parents are being gay for McCain right now. They only watch the local news and no dems were around for them to cover in a good light, only that they wouldn't campaign here. This is leading to animosity toward the dems.

And Redstorm, I would vote for Hillary in the general if it was a month ago, but now her true "monster" colors are finally showing. She'll do anything to win and I don't like it. It makes me thnk of Romney, they both just seem to me like they deserved their parties nominations. Fuck that bitch.

I suppose I'd vote still if she kicks his ass in debates though. Those are pretty improtant in my decision making process. I want out of Iraq pretty badly though and all through high school I mocked this war since BEFORE it began, so I just couldn't vote McCain.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: afoaf]
    #8149311 -

afoaf said:
I see.

So then not having your primary ballot counted would make you more
inclined to not vote at all?

I'm still not really feeling it.




That's more than likely because you've never been
disenfranchised before.

If you were an Obama voter and you felt there was a large difference between Obama and Clinton, so much that you feel that there is no viable candidate between McCain and Clinton, you more than likely would not show up.

Or how about all the blacks who finally had someone to identify with. If Clinton takes the nomination, I'd be willing to wager their turnout will be much lower.

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: adrug]
    #8153319 -

adrug said:
I don't see why everyone is so eager to let them have a "do-over" when they broke the rules in the first place.




Seuss said:
Because there are 336 (I think) delegates between Michigan and Florida and the race is to close to call. Kinda lame that the party can't stand by their own decision... but typical of politics in general.




yep


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: Redstorm]
    #8153394 -

there are always dismal choices in elections and low turnout
as a result

I just don't see this as that special of a case.

if their votes were counted and their candidate still loses, then what?

what's the difference?

let them twist in the wind...then maybe they'll get passionate about
their elections.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: afoaf]
    #8153701 -

The whole reason we got our delegates stripped is because we're passionate about the elections. Tell me your state is any better. Guess what, I probably isn't.

The people just didn't know that our politicians were screwing us. The Detroit media at least was to busy telling us abnput all the dead niggers in town.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: dill705]
    #8153744 -

Michigan democrats are giant pussies. Michigan is a piece of shit state.

Michigan is one of 4 states that spends more money on prisons than education. This goes to show you what the politicians in michigan care about.

FUCK MICHIGAN!


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.

Edited by derx (03/17/08 01:20 AM)

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Re: Michigan Dems agree on June 3 do-over [Re: dill705]
    #8153784 -

dill705 said:
The people just didn't know that our politicians were screwing us. The Detroit media at least was to busy telling us abnput all the dead niggers in town.



This is stupidity of the highest order. If you wait for the Gov't to tell you when it's raping you, you're going to wake up to alot of sore butt-holes and bloody sheets.

There is no way you could not have known this was happening if you have even a base-level interest in politics.

I knew MI and FL were losing their delegates if they moved up their primaries as soon as the DNC told them they were.

Now, as I've stated before I'm the #1 proponent of letting those states re-do their elections. But not because I think they got shafted. It's because I realize the harm that NOT letting them vote inflicts on my party.

All things being equal, I would say fuck you guys. It's your fault, you were told flat out what would happen if you moved your primaries up, and you did it anyway.

Saying "We Didn't Know!" is not taking responsibility for your own actions.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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