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Offlinesupernovasky
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Registered: 01/11/08
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Loc: Louisiana
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8131478 - 03/11/08 01:46 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


Today there are 14 Democratic State Senators and 42 Democratic State Representatives.




There are 26 Republican state senators and 78 state republicans. Before the bill passed, they got a few "democrats" to jump on. The bill was going to pass no matter WHAT happened. The fact of the matter is, it was a bill passed by a vast-majority republican legislature, drafted by a republican. Only 24% of Floridians want that result to stand.


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Offlinesupernovasky
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: DieCommie]
    #8131481 - 03/11/08 01:48 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

If Republicans fucked me over like that, it would be a good reason to vote libertarian for a few years (as If I need more of a reason). Democrats fucked you over, so maybe join the green party, or the socialist party?




I don't fully believe democrats fucked me over. A state legislature with a republican vicegrip on its balls fucked the people of Florida over. A republican-written bill to change the democratic primary date, passed in a nearly-supermajority republican house, and signed off by a republican governor fucked me over.

And no third party represents my beliefs better than the democratic party.

I also believe in the grand scheme of things, this wont matter. On May 20th, it is likely that Obama will be above 1627 pleadged delegates, many analysits are projecting. This would mean that he'd be declared the victor of the 2008 pledged delegate race. So after that, he would have won twice the states as Clinton, won the pledged delegate race, won the popular vote, and pretty much locked up the nomination.


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Edited by supernovasky (03/11/08 01:51 PM)


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Offlinedill705
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Registered: 12/10/07
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8131495 - 03/11/08 01:50 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup:

That may be the only time we ever agree. :wink:


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~


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Offlinedill705
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: dill705]
    #8131518 - 03/11/08 01:53 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Eh, I think your a little of base blaming the repubs, lonestar had some (i hate to admit it) good numbers and the dems could have raised hell in Florida and got the public involved, buiut still, most people don't like that Iowa and N.H. get there dicks sucked every 4 years.

When is it our turn for some action, huh?


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: supernovasky]
    #8131524 - 03/11/08 01:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
Quote:


Today there are 14 Democratic State Senators and 42 Democratic State Representatives.




There are 26 Republican state senators and 78 state republicans. Before the bill passed, they got a few "democrats" to jump on. 





115-1.

Then  118-0 on the final draft.


how is that " a few democrats"???


whatever i give up. Maybe the Democrats should Sue the republicans!:rolleyes:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinesupernovasky
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Registered: 01/11/08
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: dill705]
    #8131529 - 03/11/08 01:56 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Florida dems, in this super-republican legislature, are known to be a bit Lieberman-esque. Maybe I am a bit off base because they didn't raise hell, but like I said, the bill would have passed even if every democrat voted no. I personally think that had the dems voted no, the bill would have still passed, and republicans would have said "see how much the democrats care about your state? They didn't even want to give Florida an early voice"


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Offlinesupernovasky
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Registered: 01/11/08
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8131537 - 03/11/08 01:58 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

115-1.

Then 118-0 on the final draft.


how is that " a few democrats"???




Maybe you didn't understand the meaning of "before the bill passed."

As in, they got at least 2 or 3 democrats to jump on boards before they went to vote on the bill, indicating that a supermajority (80 people in the house, 28 people in the senate) would ensure the bills passage no matter what.


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Offlinesupernovasky
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8131553 - 03/11/08 02:00 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

whatever i give up. Maybe the Democrats should Sue the republicans!




No, but to say that this is the democrats fault in Florida is disingenuous. Democrats had little say in this matter. I will say it again.... Republican written bill, Republican near-supermajority house, republican near-supermajority senate, republican governor, chose the date of the democratic primary. And you want to blame the democrats? The everyday democrat had no say in this matter, and even if they did, and all of the democrat votes in the legislature would have been no, the bill would have still passed with a big majority.


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Edited by supernovasky (03/11/08 02:13 PM)


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Offlinedill705
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: supernovasky]
    #8131581 - 03/11/08 02:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

That is exactly my point in saying it's not my fault that my states delegates fro taken away, the average joe probably didn't even know about the earlier primary until after it had passed.

There is much to be desired in Michigans news media...


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: supernovasky]
    #8131616 - 03/11/08 02:17 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
Quote:

whatever i give up. Maybe the Democrats should Sue the republicans!




No, but to say that this is the democrats fault in Florida is disingenuous. And you want to blame the democrats?




i never once blamed the democrats.

do you understand that?

only YOU blamed the Republicans.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: dill705]
    #8131624 - 03/11/08 02:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I just can't believe that I'm not hearing anyone in the news media
deride the respective state parties for allowing this to happen after
they signed agreements that allowed Nevada and South Carolina primaries
to occur early enough to balance out the disproportionality of IA and NH
with the more diverse racial and socioeconomic populations in NV and SC.

Nevermind the fact that NO ONE seems to be mentioning the fact that Obama
wasn't even on the MI ballot in the MSM.

WHAT FUCKING SENSE DOES IT MAKE TO SEAT THOSE DELEGATES!?

People broke the rules and purposely disenfranchised their entire state
voting block. It sounds like a sound look at who those people are is in
order.

That being said, the coverage on this shit is so unbalanced and incomplete
that it sickens me.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinesupernovasky
Comrade
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Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 8,990
Loc: Louisiana
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8131631 - 03/11/08 02:21 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


i never once blamed the democrats.

do you understand that?

only YOU blamed the Republicans.




Given you never blamed the democrats, others did in this forum, and as it remains, it was still NOT the democrats fault that this happened.

I do blame republicans (not all republicans, just Florida legislature republicans). Is it not right to blame them for a bill they authored, passed through a near supermajority house, passed through a near supermajority senate, and then passed into the republican governor's hands?


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: afoaf]
    #8131652 - 03/11/08 02:27 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
I just can't believe that I'm not hearing anyone in the news media
deride the respective state parties for allowing this to happen after
they signed agreements that allowed Nevada and South Carolina primaries
to occur early enough to balance out the disproportionality of IA and NH
with the more diverse racial and socioeconomic populations in NV and SC.









i forgot all about that.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinedill705
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Posts: 3,779
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8131722 - 03/11/08 02:43 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, that's interesting.

Did all the states have to agree on th emove up for S.C. and Nevada?

If so, FUCK MI and FL :kingtard:


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: dill705]
    #8136213 - 03/12/08 12:33 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

yes, it was a nationally sanctioned decision.

MI and FL decided to break the rules and in the process fucked themselves
and their states.

they do not get a do-over.

and they don't get to blame anyone for disenfranchisement except themselves.

they knew the penalty for running early.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinesupernovasky
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: afoaf]
    #8136227 - 03/12/08 12:37 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Man, this is a complex issue. See, on one hand, its Michigan and Florida's fault that this happened. However, it is not the everyday, Michigan/Florida democrat's fault that this happened, it is the weak democrats in the house and senate of Florida, and the reactionary democrats in the house and senate of Michigan. Florida made the decision first, and it was a bill authored by republicans, passed through a near supermajority republican house, passed through a near supermajority republican senate, and passed into the hands of a republican governor. The state democratic committee had no choice but to go along, and thus did not make this decision.

I personally believe that there have been efforts on all sides to sabotage the democratic primaries by republicans.

Check this out, a new story today..

24% of Hillary voters yesterday in Mississippi had a strong liking of John McCain
around 25% said that they would be dissatisfied if Clinton was commander and chief.

I really do believe that 25% of Hillary's votes in open primaries come from people who will be voting for McCain, and are listening to Rush to game the primaries.


--------------------
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Offlinedill705
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: afoaf]
    #8136232 - 03/12/08 12:38 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Man, we all know they probably will get a do-over if the money can be found.

Hillary will take it to court and win because some conservative judge will think she'll have a better chance of winning the nomination and then losing to McCain.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: supernovasky]
    #8136860 - 03/12/08 02:57 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I think open primaries should be done away with.

if you can't do a little due diligence, determine your candidate and
re-register (if necessary) before the election then you're a fucking
moron and don't deserve to vote anywho.

all these republicans voting for hillary is election sabotage, imo.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinedill705
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: afoaf]
    #8136887 - 03/12/08 03:03 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup:

Yeah, forcing a re-register is a good idea.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~


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OfflineSmackshadow
It's Time for Wild Speculation


Registered: 09/27/05
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Re: Michigan and Florida, your opinions? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8139367 - 03/12/08 11:45 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

No F'ing re-vote. Seriously the rules are the rules. Both states knew the rules, and decided to ignore them. The fact of the matter is that we might piss off all the people in FL and MI and they might turn out for republicans more. A travesty to be sure. If we have a re-vote, and lets say that Clinton wins both the states and takes the nomination, then every Obama fan like me is going to be irate about having another election stolen from them. Where normally I might just vote Clinton in the general election because she too is a good candidate, all the sudden I might just vote for a goldfish cracker, because I don't vote for people who steal elections, and I sure as hell am not going to vote for the third reincarnation of John McCain. Then the Dem's would loose.

The Democrats want to win FL and MI to be sure, they certainly don't want to disenfranchise their voter blocks. Quite frankly thats why they set up these rules in the first place.


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The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
     
~H. L. Mencken~


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