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lonestar2004
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Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant'
#8031672 - 02/16/08 04:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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A top Hillary Clinton adviser on Saturday boldly predicted his candidate would lock down the nomination before the August convention by definitively winning over party insiders and officials known as superdelegates, claiming the number of state elections won by rival Barack Obama would be "irrelevant" to their decision.
The claims no doubt will escalate the war of words between the campaigns, as Obama continues to argue superdelegates should vote the way of their districts. But the special class of delegates, which make up about 20 percent of the total delegate haul, are not bound to vote the way of their states and districts, as pledged delegates are.
Obama leads handily in the pledged delegate count and has won more states but trails Clinton in superdelegates, making them potential and controversial deadlock-breakers if the race ends up a dead heat come convention time.
Harold Ickes, a 40-year party operative charged with winning over superdelegates for the Clinton campaign, made no apologies on Saturday for the campaign's convention strategy.
"We're going to win this nomination," Ickes said, adding that they would do so soon after the last contest on June 7 in Puerto Rico. "You're not going to see this go to the convention floor."
Ickes predicted Clinton and Obama would run "neck and neck" in the remaining states and that there would be a "minuscule amount of difference" between the two in pledged delegates.
But he said superdelegates would determine the outcome and side in larger numbers for Clinton, as they "have a sense of what it takes to get elected."
Even though averages of head-to-head polls on RealClearPolitics.com show Obama beating presumptive GOP nominee John McCain in a general election and Clinton losing, the Clinton camp is stressing the electability argument.
Ickes said superdelegates must "exercise their best judgment" about who can win the White House.
In essence, he argued the party's 795 superdelegates (Connecticut Independent-Democrat Sen. Joe Lieberman recently was stripped of his superdelegate status) were in a better position to assess electability and suitability for the presidency than party regulars who will attend the national convention in late August as pledged delegates.
He also said Michigan and Florida, which voted for Clinton, should have delegates seated at the convention even though the national party stripped them for holding early primaries.
Obama Campaign Manager David Plouffe on Saturday blasted Clinton for the strategy.
"The Clinton campaign just said they have two options for trying to win the nomination — attempting to have superdelegates overturn the will of the Democratic voters or change the rules they agreed to at the eleventh hour in order to seat non-existent delegates from Florida and Michigan," he said in a statement.
"The Clinton campaign should focus on winning pledged delegates as a result of elections, not these say-or-do-anything-to-win tactics that could undermine Democrats' ability to win the general election."
Many top Democrats, among them House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, have said superdelegates should follow the will of voters expressed through primaries and caucuses and not trump those votes.
The Obama campaign also circulated a Bloomberg story from Friday quoting Pelosi, who said Michigan and Florida should not decide the race since they broke party rules.
Though he predicted the superdelegates basically would turn the election, Ickes in the same phone call Saturday said he objected to the term because it implied they had too much power. He said from here out, he's calling them "automatic delegates."
"The Fourth Estate created the term 'superdelegate,'" Ickes said, though Democrats have used the term widely in the roiling debate of their allegiances and responsibilities in the increasingly competitive and high-stakes battle for the Democratic presidential nomination.
"They don't have super powers," Ickes said. "It's one person, one vote. They have no more power than any other delegate. But they do have a sense of what it takes to get elected."
Superdelegates consist of members of Congress, former presidents, governors and other party officials and insiders. The class was created in 1982 to take power away from activists and hand it to party insiders. Rarely have their votes decided the nominee.
"They are closely in touch with the issues and ideas of the jurisdiction they represent and they are as much or more in touch than delegates won or recruited by presidential campaigns," Ickes said.
Obama currently leads Clinton by 136 in pledged delegates but trails by 95 in superdelegates, according to calculations given by both campaigns.
"Hillary will end up with more automatic delegates than Obama," Ickes said, and the number of elections won by Obama is "irrelevant to the obligations of automatic delegates."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330919,00.html
Ickes argued the "superdelegates" should be called "automatic delegates" instead, because the former makes it sound like they have “superpowers.” The DNC itself refers to them as “superdelegates” and as “unpledged” delegates.
"Automatic delegates don't have superpowers. Their vote isn't given any extra weight," Ickes said
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/16/671358.aspx
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
Edited by lonestar2004 (02/16/08 05:28 PM)
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Coaster
Baʿal



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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: lonestar2004]
#8031685 - 02/16/08 04:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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ya the whole system is so stupid its like having a final in a class thats worth 80% of ur grade dont even come to class until the last day pointless, is the word for our votes
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: lonestar2004]
#8031691 - 02/16/08 04:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I can't even imagine the uproar that will occur if the superdelegates go against the will of the people. Somehow, though, it's not surprising to me that Clinton's top aide is bragging about circumventing democracy.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: Redstorm]
#8031706 - 02/16/08 04:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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"We're going to win this nomination," Ickes said, adding that they would do so soon after the last contest on June 7 in Puerto Rico. "You're not going to see this go to the convention floor."
this guy is a piece of shit.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: Redstorm]
#8031707 - 02/16/08 04:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I can't even imagine the uproar that will occur if the superdelegates go against the will of the people.

I can't see it actually happening but man, if it did..
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Coaster
Baʿal



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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: zorbman]
#8031732 - 02/16/08 04:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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can u see a candidate losing even though he had more votes? i didnt see that coming 8 years ago either
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: zorbman]
#8031755 - 02/16/08 04:53 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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That'll be one laugh riot if it happens. I'm surprised the Republicans got it narrowed down so fast and I am especially surprised that the heinous slag wasn't able to hold together her own party which doesn't hate near as much as the rest of us do. If you think the Republicans are fractured just wait until there is a brokered Dem convention and the nod goes to the candidate with fewer pledged delegates. BWAHAHAHA.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: lonestar2004]
#8031775 - 02/16/08 04:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
That "super delegate" stuff is nonsense...
You should stick to Republican politics, which you may actually know something about. You act like those votes are counted already. News FLASH, Dean had something like 100 of your "Guaranteed" super-delegates in the last election.
Guess how many voted for him at the convention? NOT ALL OF THEM.
Those delegates have NEVER been the deciding factor at a convention.
EVER.
Despite your claims to the contrary, those delegates have not CAST their votes for Hillary. They may claim to support her, but if you think they're going to cast their votes for a losing candidate come nomination day, you're out of your mind.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7906025#7906025
Do you still feel this way?
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: zappaisgod]
#8031797 - 02/16/08 05:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm starting to think that Obama will step down and accept the V.P.
After all, Edwards did say Obama is a Pussy.
Edited by lonestar2004 (02/16/08 06:27 PM)
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lonestar2004
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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: lonestar2004]
#8032130 - 02/16/08 06:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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" Ickes, argued that the 796 so-called superdelegates who could decide the party’s White House nominee were as much or “potentially more in touch” with the issues important to voters than the delegates amassed by the candidates through state "
He also suggested that Clinton would fight to the bitter end for the nomination, and would rely on the support of the superdelegates to clinch the nomination.
http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/clinton-campaign-defends-superdelegatess-influence-2008-02-16.html
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: lonestar2004]
#8032167 - 02/16/08 06:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said: I'm starting to think that Obama will step down and accept the V.P.
Not if he thinks he got hosed out of the nomination.
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johnm214



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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: zappaisgod]
#8033204 - 02/16/08 11:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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He needs more fainting women to shore up the nomination for good.
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blackegg
...has left the building.



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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: zappaisgod]
#8033212 - 02/16/08 11:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
If you think the Republicans are fractured...
I've always seen the Republican Party as top down and buisness-like and the Democrats as extremely fractured and activist oriented.
Ever seen that movie, "So Goes The Nation"?
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: blackegg]
#8033424 - 02/17/08 01:04 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Obama is still going to get the nomination. Hillary Clinton will be unsuccessful in splitting the party. I don't think any elected Democrat sees anything wrong with Obama. Its pretty evident that he is more electable than Hillary is when ran agansit McCain.
The party isn't stupid. Obama is pulling in more votes than Hillary is with a great margin. He's taken twice as many states as her and didn't lag too far behind in the big states that she won. He's got more momentum and energy with him right now. Hillary's campaign saying "look to who will be more electable" is pretty stupid when its pretty clear who is more electable by who is winning the most votes in the country. The party seems to have the atmosphere that it is pretty much a good idea to not divide the party, and going agansit the will of the people would be the greatest way to hand the election to McCain.
Its only a little more drawn out because Hillary has a lot of influence, even as it is continuing to wane and they will eventually shove her aside gently. If she didn't take it this year, she could always hit him very strong in four years by being able to criticize his "lack of experience" or whatever, that might appeal to her.
Anyways, the most senior leaders of the party, like Al Gore and Jimmy Carter, are kind of banding together and will not give any hint as to who they will decide or if they have decided yet, so they can kind of make the judgement call for the party. Al Gore is respected as the leader right now, and, in all honesty, I see him going with Obama. Obama's plans on alternative energy, the environment, etc. are definitely very appealing to Al Gore, and I understand that he has a testy relationship with the Clinton's.
I think its hilarious that Al Gore and Jimmy Carter will decide the next President of the United States.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: fireworks_god]
#8033878 - 02/17/08 07:37 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Jimmy Carter as a leader in the party? I don't think so. Al Gore isn't so much either. Both of them have been out of the loop for quite awhile. Her husband is going to be calling in a lot of favors, though, something Obama doesn't have. Nobody owes him anything whereas the Clintons have spent decades working on this. Ohio and Texas will be very big.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: lonestar2004]
#8034002 - 02/17/08 08:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Tides may be shifting. Also looks like the media will be helping with deciding who the Dem nominee is by calling Obama supporters Creepy and Cult-Like.
Such media smears are great for getting people not to want to show support for someone if they will be associated with social pariahs. It's an effective strategy.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200802150018?f=h_latest
Just maybe if she gets the nod, an even larger segment of society will start to wake up to how screwed up our elections systems is and the role the media plays in swaying the vote.
Next, they'll start saying that Obama has the support of the Independents, not the true and loyal to the party Democrats and that's why Hillary should get the nod.
After that, the media will start asking Obama if he will run as an Independent if he doesn't get the nomination.
At any rate, I bet the election in 08 will see more write ins then ever before.
Fraction, friction sparks will be flying this fall in all directions.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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zorbman
blarrr


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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#8034355 - 02/17/08 11:38 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Also looks like the media will be helping with deciding who the Dem nominee is by calling Obama supporters Creepy and Cult-Like.
They can call them what they want but they aren't a cult or small group at all. They are actually the majority on the democratic side. And I don't get "creepy" either. Unless you find cheeful, enthusiastic people creepy. This smells like jealousy to me. Hillary supporters in the media and elsewhere would kill for this kind of enthusiasm for their candidate.
Sounds like Hillary's friends in the media are trying to change the conversation about Obama and his supporters.
I'm not one to overestimate the power of the media as many here do but I have to say that up until recently they do seem to be siding with Obama whether consciously or unconsciously. And it has had an effect. Maybe they are just going with the most dramatic story but they are also helping create that story.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: zorbman]
#8034462 - 02/17/08 12:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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MSNBC Chris Matthews: Obama Speech Caused 'Thrill Going Up My Leg'
"During MSNBC's live coverage of Tuesday's presidential primary elections, after the speeches of Barack Obama and John McCain had aired, Chris Matthews expressed his latest over the top admiration for Obama's speaking skills as the MSNBC anchor admitted that Obama's speech created a "thrill" in his leg:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2008/02/13/matthews-obama-speech-caused-thrill-going-my-leg
CREEPY.....
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: zappaisgod]
#8036731 - 02/18/08 05:57 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Jimmy Carter as a leader in the party? I don't think so. Al Gore isn't so much either. Both of them have been out of the loop for quite awhile.
The last time I checked, Jimmy Carter was a dignified former President, Democrat and all that. The point, of course, is that I was reading an article that was speaking of the superdelegates and how some of them that are considered to be senior leaders (a former President and a former Vice-President that nearly won a Presidental election are senior leaders, and I think you understate Al Gore's prominence as a leader for his party) are working together to kind of stay undeclared and give the real direction for the party if it comes down to it.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#8036734 - 02/18/08 05:59 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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That can only work if the candidate also doesn't win dozens of primaries.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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rizingfire
Mycoticus psychoticus




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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: fireworks_god]
#8036743 - 02/18/08 06:03 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think Obama is gonna beat Clinton and the super delegates wont save her. How nice would it be if this was a democracy and they just counted votes and the winner wins? I prefer Obama that way if McCain does loose at least Pot is getting legalized, if hillary wins I don't get shit out of it and the world becomes a shittier place overnight. Obama is as full of shit as everyone else but I think he can swing the pot thing.... You know, like every other democrat in office that they have never carried out thier promises and Obama is writing checks his ass can't cash but that is a typical liberal move. So If a libtard must be elected I choose obomber!::sparks joint:: doesn't change shit I guess....Plus to withdraw from Iraq now would be stupid and even the democrats are noticing...maybe one botched campaign promise.
-------------------- aka NHMI
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blackegg
...has left the building.



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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: rizingfire]
#8036796 - 02/18/08 06:43 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Obama never said he would legalize marijuana.
Edit: Wait a minute! Weren't you the guy who brought us that 'Obamma' is a muslim devil link?
Edited by blackegg (02/18/08 06:51 AM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: fireworks_god]
#8036985 - 02/18/08 08:27 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Jimmy Carter is a pretty hated figure and has had zero to do with American politics for a long time seeing as how he gallivants all over the world with his voting and habitat schtick. I imagine most Dems consider him radioactive. Al Gore has pretty much been an internationalist gadfly himself. The party actually does have leaders. These two, however, aren't really in that group.
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blackegg
...has left the building.



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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: zappaisgod]
#8037136 - 02/18/08 09:15 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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People hate Jimmy Carter??
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: blackegg]
#8037179 - 02/18/08 09:26 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yes. A lot of them.
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Minstrel
Man of Science


Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: zappaisgod]
#8037443 - 02/18/08 11:06 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Now, can someone please explain to me how these 'super delegates' are any different than the inner party of Oceania in 1984?
Edited by Minstrel (02/18/08 01:43 PM)
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: Minstrel]
#8037481 - 02/18/08 11:19 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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It reminds me of how the BCS college football system works....
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: zappaisgod]
#8038842 - 02/18/08 04:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Yes. A lot of them.
Plenty of Republicans do. He may have been a blah president, but his non-profit ventures after his term have been great. Probably more influential and has done more for others than 99% of the people who would love to crucify him.
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bradmassive
KingOfTheHill


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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: Redstorm]
#8038874 - 02/18/08 04:55 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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That is an awesome quote in your sig man.
-------------------- "In the beginning, I had no name. i was a shape, a snarling shadow of the Old World which slipped into this existence" - Steven Erikson "Our progress as a species rests squarely on the shoulders of that tenth person. The nine are satisfied with things they are told are valuable. Person 10 determines for himself what has value." - My good friend Za -
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Top Clinton Adviser Says Superdelegates Will Decide Election, Obama's Victories 'Irrelevant' [Re: Redstorm]
#8038883 - 02/18/08 04:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have had personal experience with Habitat For Humanity. The best that can be said of them is that they are well intentioned boobs. They waste effort, resources and extort land. Feh.
Then there's the whole Jew hating thing and more. At any rate, I didn't intend to derail the thread into a Carter hatefest. Just to point out that he has not really been involved as a party leader for quite some time. He is more of an international gadfly.
--------------------
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