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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8090005 -

MushroomTrip said:
However, this doesn't stop me from actually observing that there are smarter ways of getting out of situations like these. In fact, I think it's good to outline them because it might serve as an example for others in similar situations.


Which situations are you referring to?

I was simply stating that it isn't really possible to hold someone else to an ideal if they are not capable of fufilling that ideal. :wink:

Quote:
Even if it was a moment in which she felt the need to get away from her problems, maybe if she would have been more present and looking out for her best interest, the things would have turned out with a lesson learned.
Maybe she was capable of that.


She theoretically might have been capable, but potential that is not realized is not potential. :tongue:

Quote:
The fact that she died in a dumb way doesn't necessarily mean that she was unable to live a fulfilling life. :shrug:


I didn't say that. :lol:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8090045 -

Quote:
Which situations are you referring to?

I was simply stating that it isn't really possible to hold someone else to an ideal if they are not capable of fufilling that ideal. :wink:


And I was saying that you can't really know if she wasn't capable of fufilling it. Situations and opportunities change each second.
Where I was getting at was that maybe death wasn't so inevitable for her. It's good to consider other possible outcomes, even if you can't really apply them since it regards someone else's life. :hehehe:

Quote:
She theoretically might have been capable, but potential that is not realized is not potential. :tongue:


And I was speaking theoretically. :sherlock:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8090071 -

MushroomTrip said:
And I was saying that you can't really know if she wasn't capable of fufilling it. Situations and opportunities change each second.


She wasn't capable of fufilling the ideal of being responsible for the continuation of one's own life, or else she would have. I readily admit that she might have been able to in other situations, and this could have simply been a tactical error in an otherwise responsible life, but still, failure is failure.

Quote:
Where I was getting at was that maybe death wasn't so inevitable for her.


Well, death is inevitable for all of us, but I think it stands to be seen that her death in that situation was pretty inevitable, since it happened. :wink:

Quote:
It's good to consider other possible outcomes, even if you can't really apply them since it regards someone else's life. :hehehe:


Yes, learning from others is commendable, but there was no other possible outcome in that circumstance.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: porcupine]
    #8090090 -

I doubt this. Most likely your idea of good parenting is whatever is considered normal. IMO maybe one or two percent at most are really healthy parents.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8090116 -

Quote:
She wasn't capable of fufilling the ideal of being responsible for the continuation of one's own life, or else she would have. I readily admit that she might have been able to in other situations, and this could have simply been a tactical error in an otherwise responsible life, but still, failure is failure.


I don't really know if this should necessarily be considered failure. Yes, she failed to live, as long as you consider life as the ultimate prize.
Would she still have failed if somehow she would have survived the coma? Maybe it could have turned into a moment of realization for her. She didn't CONSCIOUSLY kill herself, so it is still an accident where presumably she didn't want to die.
My answer to that would be that, in the given moment, what she did was dumb. No more or less.
And yes, it was exactly those other situations that I was referring to.

Quote:
Well, death is inevitable for all of us, but I think it stands to be seen that her death in that situation was pretty inevitable, since it happened. :wink:


Death would have been avoidable if, for example, her organism was stronger. :hehehe:

Quote:
Yes, learning from others is commendable, but there was no other possible outcome in that circumstance.


I agree with that


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8090123 -


Death would have been avoidable if, for example, her orgasm was stronger. :hehehe::whoa:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8090125 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
No link, but I am sure it is all over the news.

A young lady drank some 17 shots of hard liquor on her 21st birthday and died from alcohol poisoning. Her family is suing the bartender and her friends.

How far does the ethical and legal responsibility lie with her friends? Are they their sister's keeper?

What if they actively encouraged her to drink more and more?


You always have to look after a person like this, because after a certain point they're unable to recall how much they have drank and this interferes with their ability to make decisions. That's just alcohol 101.

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8090130 -

More booze for the rest of us.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8090183 -

MushroomTrip said:
I don't really know if this should necessarily be considered failure. Yes, she failed to live, as long as you consider life as the ultimate prize.


Doesn't that mean that she failed to assume responsibility for continuing to live, since her actions were what caused her death?

Quote:
Would she still have failed if somehow she would have survived the coma?


She would have failed to provide for her physical well-being, yes. :smirk:

Quote:
Maybe it could have turned into a moment of realization for her. She didn't CONSCIOUSLY kill herself, so it is still an accident where presumably she didn't want to die.


Perhaps she didn't consciously intend on killing herself, but she failed to accurately analyze the situation and act in response in a manner that would ensure she didn't die. The lapse of judgement might have been an accident, but it was still her responsibility to make that judgement, if she had intended on continuing to live.

Quote:
My answer to that would be that, in the given moment, what she did was dumb. No more or less.


No more or no less? What about the subsequent consequences?

Quote:
Death would have been avoidable if, for example, her organism was stronger. :hehehe:


It wasn't, though, and she failed to act in respect of that. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: Icelander]
    #8090188 -

Yeah, there is a real shortage. :rolleyes:


--------------------

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8090218 -

Quote:
Doesn't that mean that she failed to assume responsibility for continuing to live, since her actions were what caused her death?


Yes.
That's exactly why I said that she did an irresponsible act earlier in my posts.

Quote:
She would have failed to provide for her physical well-being, yes.


Yes. :naughty:

Quote:
Perhaps she didn't consciously intend on killing herself, but she failed to accurately analyze the situation and act in response in a manner that would ensure she didn't die. The lapse of judgement might have been an accident, but it was still her responsibility to make that judgement, if she had intended on continuing to live.


Yes, we already settled that what she did was irresponsible.
Other than that, like I said, I was examining the other possible outcomes, theoretically of course.
The fact that she died doesn't mean that she was 100% prawn to die. If it were so, it means that she has a destiny.

Quote:
No more or no less? What about the subsequent consequences?


No more no less, for the exact given situation at a specific moment.

Quote:
It wasn't, though, and she failed to act in respect of that. :wink:


Indubitably. :sherlock:
That's why it was a "what if" discussion.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: Icelander]
    #8090230 -

Icelander said:
I doubt this. Most likely your idea of good parenting is whatever is considered normal. IMO maybe one or two percent at most are really healthy parents.


i meant good in a relative sense.

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: porcupine]
    #8090267 -

The fact is that, most of that children are, at least up to an age, the result of the education given by their parents. And that parents ARE indeed responsible for their children.
The fact that they don't assume this responsibility, the fact that maybe they're not even aware of it, or denying it, doesn't mean that the responsibility isn't still there.
Even if she turned legal of age, it doesn't mean that psychologically she was detached from her education. Hence the results.
I can't say I had "bad" parents, but they definitely showed many flaws into growing me up in a healthy way. And later on I discovered that many of the things I took as being good and trustworthy, were nothing more but a load of bull shit which were even harming me.
In a way I can say that I am glad to have had these experiences, because I have developed a sense of how is it healthy and preferable for me, and also what to avoid because I had the living example in them. However, I don't know how I might have turned out if I had more responsible parents. :tongue:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8090397 -

but i'm saying that many people have that experience with their parents and when people have kids, they are always determined to do a better job raising them then their parents did. and yet, we still don't have anything close to perfect parents after all these generations.

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: porcupine]
    #8090536 -

Quote:
but i'm saying that many people have that experience with their parents and when people have kids, they are always determined to do a better job raising them then their parents did.


That's exactly the reason why they don't become good parents in the first place.
Because they become overemotional. And when this happens they are unable to see thing in perspective. They usually understand that "good parents" mean everything that their parents weren't. So instead of developing a better understanding of life and using their experience to learn about a child's needs, they focus on their frustrations. Their statement that they will become good parents is because their personal problems, not because they would really understand what's happening or that they reached a state in which they see what makes for a healthy living.
Dissatisfactions are felt by everyone. Feeling them does not equate with finding an explanation and therefore a solution. Mayne people are unable to discern between those two so they end up thinking they have it all figured out.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8092637 -

It's shit that her parents are suing her friends who are already probably fucked up enough about it, but its also pretty fucking lame that not one of her friends called her a cab and cut her off before she managed to drink that fucking much. Taking care of friends is important. I'm sure most of us has had at least one night of drinking too much and either blacking out (not me) or requiring a friend to call the cab and put you in it (my last birthday, ugh.) It's nice when friends watch out for each other because it's easy to get carried away without realising it sometimes.

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8093010 -

'Taking care of friends is important.'


--------------------

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8093026 -

I tried to stop BFTD from drinking himself to death last night. Thank deity he is still here. :tongue:


--------------------

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Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8093035 -

Quote:
Thank deity he is still here. :tongue:


You're welcome.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Family sues friends of alcohol OD 'victim' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8093037 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
I tried to stop BFTD from drinking himself to death last night. Thank deity he is still here. :tongue:


I knew I should have talked you out of it. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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