Quote:

Of is it just giving a bigger surface area/deeper sub depth which is producing a very good first flush but not more then to be expected from the amount of spawn used?

---

Bingo, along with more water = IMO & IME

Doc

doc34 said:

HybridprX said:

coir alone does not give off terribly high yields, mix in some coffee grounds with it and it's just as good as straw/hpoo

---

Straw/poo is the hands down winner for monster shrooms, it can't be beat.
I don't know when coir became a substrate, because it contains only minute nutrients, being high in Sodium and Potassium, it is very low in Nitrogen. It is Coconut husks, the outer shell of the coconut seed that is shredded, it has very little nutrient values as compared to Poo/Straw. Using it as a substrate isn't really a good idea IMO & IME. Using it as a substrate your adding water not nutrients-Coir holds about 10 times its size/weight in water-just like verm. Why do you think people add it to their substrate of straw, poo, or grains? To add moisture not nutrients.

Coir dust is very similar to peat in appearance. It is light to dark brown in color and consists primarily of particles in the size range 0.2-2.0 mm (75-90%). Unlike sphagnum peat, there are no sticks or other extraneous matter.
Independent analyses of coir dust were performed in May and June 1991 at Auburn University, University of Arkansas, and A&L Analytical Laboratories (Memphis, TN).
G. C. Cresswell (1992) looked at coir dust in comparison to sedge and sphagnum peat products and concluded that it has superior structural stability, water absorption ability and drainage, and cation exchange capacity compared to either sphagnum peat or sedge peat.
Coir dust tends to be high in both sodium and potassium, compared to the other peats, but Na is leached readily from the material under irrigation. The high levels of potassium present in coir dust are interesting, and may actually prove more a benefit than any detriment to plant growth. Coir dust from sources other than Sri Lanka have also reportedly contained chlorides at levels toxic to many plants, thus it is very important that salinity in the raw material be monitored before processing into a horticultural amendment. It is evident, that chemical properties of this material can vary widely from source to source.
The higher pH of coir dust may allow less lime to be added to a coir dust-based medium, though adding dolomite to container soils is more important for Ca and Mg nutrition than for elevating pH. Cresswell did find that a small amount of nitrogen drawdown (N kept from availability to plants during decomposition of organic amendments low in nitrogen) occurred with coir dust, but typical production fertilization practices would likely compensate for the small amount of resulting N loss. At present, it is unclear how else fertilization regimes may need to be adjusted, if at all, in media composed chiefly of coir dust.

I use it for casing material only (and I get huge yields, check some of my posts) unless I add it the substrate to add moisture, but, that's just how I do it, some will argue differently

Doc

---

axis_tech said:

so for people spawning to coir it would be wiser to use a spawn ratio of say 1:1 for larger/more flushes?

I know it's probably not worth it but for some people hauling horse poo and straw into their house isn't much of an option.

---

Quote:

I'm not sure about that Doc. I've used coir with low spawn:coir ratios and still achieved magnificent yields. I know coir is high in lignin and cellulose, which is ideal for woodlovers, but cubes seem to tear it up just the same. You can grow cubes off of low nutrition cardboard and newspaper, so why not coconut husks?

---

Your water content was what got your yields so high-along with what nutrients were present in your substrate and the surface area of your casing, but water is the main factor. Mushrooms are 90 % water and they have to get that water from some where right(That's why they fruit after it rains)? Right, so, when you add coir, verm, shit, straw to your spawn, you are not only adding food but you are adding alot of water to support the flush and allow for it to be huge. Not to mention the high humidity and the misting that will be done to add even more water.
Your mycelia has to have a foundation to fruit from and coir gives it just that. Your cubes have to have a sustainable surface to fruit from or they won't fruit(or fruit well).
Coir resembles horse shit in texture, aeration and water holding capacity(actually more so than shit), mycelia love it because it can consume it very fast due to its texture and aeration(why don't you compact the substrate in PF style jars?-Because the mycelia has a hard time colonizing it when it is compacted). Compact your coir and watch how slow it takes it to colonize it. Adding more coir than spawn isn't a good idea because all the mycelia is doing is trying to get to the surface to fruit


Look, when you use Coir it creates a perfect environment for the mycelia. As long as you can keep it at the appropriate temperature the coir itself provides the humidity and the mycelia just loves it and it flies through it due to its aeration and humidity-you supplied the temps. Mycelia needs co2 to grow and underneath the surface is co2 in the coir(aeration)-that is why the mycelia rips through it. And as far as it goes about it ripping through the coir, that has alot to do with the strain used also,but the reason for the fast colonization of the coir is still from the aeration(co2 build-up) and texture(fluffy strands like straw) of the coir itself.
This is my own personal opinion about Coir from my own tests and comparisons. Coir is better suited as a casing material than a substrate, but, it can be used as both, a casing layer material or as a filler to add moisture and aerate the substrate. Either way it adds aeration(co2 and room to grow) and water to your casing.

My two pennies

Doc

P.S.  I don't want to start another "COIR-Substrate or Casing material" arguement. People do different thiings and thats how this hobby grows=experiment, experiment = try new things. I am just one of those people that believes that if something isn't broken don't try to fix it and if it works, use it!

tahoe said:

Is this the case with coir? Is this stuff really adding nutrients that cubes can digest? Of is it just giving a bigger surface area/deeper sub depth which is producing a very good first flush but not more then to be expected from the amount of spawn used?

---

RogerRabbit said:

So far, every mushroom species I've attempted to grow on coir except shiitake has done quite well. I generally add the coffee grinds from that mornings coffee pot to the coir. I've grown oysters, cubes, reishi, pan stipticus, hericium, and a few others on it. Coir actually works well for both wood lovers and dung and straw lovers. This is based on several years of tests.

That's why starting back in 2003 I suggested here that people try it as a substrate rather than as a casing which is all it was being used for at that time. That was pure heresy and I took a lot of shit for saying it, but since that time many growers have produced nice fat crops of high potent cubes, as well as other species on coir alone as a substrate.
RR

---

Quote:

im getting good results substituting coir for straw in hpoo and adding coffee and verm ..

---

You have Horse poo & coffee & verm = Food & Speed() & Water
and you get big shrooms


The food was there before you added the coir.

coAsTal said:

Quote:

Nothing.
But.
Coir.

---

doc34 said:

P.S.  I don't want to start another "COIR-Substrate or Casing material" arguement. People do different thiings and thats how this hobby grows=experiment, experiment = try new things. I am just one of those people that believes that if something isn't broken don't try to fix it and if it works, use it!

---

preschooler said:

every time i see these coffee post its like a forign language... i think that its good as far as recycling and shit.... but neccessary or bigger.. better than what we were already doing... no in my opinion.... also i think newbs should learn the basics first then experiment with mycology....

---

Quote:

I don't think most people who use coir do so because they're against using poo/straw. It's just that many of them don't have access to poo or straw, especially people in urban areas, so substituting for coir is a no-brainer.

---