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Madtowntripper said:

I don't think anyone wants Guliani nominating his fat crook of a friend Kerik for the highest court in the land. Its bad enough Bush got to throw his two stooges up there.

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rizingfire said:

Wow blackegg, good to see you actually live in the same reality that I do, despite having different personal beliefs. I don't think the evangelicals will vote for either. Obamma, whatever his true beliefs announces himself as a United Church of Christ member which wont fly with most evangelicals because that is considered a heretical denomination by mainstream Christianity. Plus the gay marriage and abortion issues are the two most important political issues to evangelicals because the separation of church and state was to keep the govt out of the church and not the other way around. They came to america for denominational freedom to worship Christ as they wanted cuz that was what the fighting was over. They looked at denominations as individual religions which is why it said freedom of religion. Wveryone went to church in the early years, you didn't have a choice or you got publically chastised. Plus 4 yrs after the 1st amendment many of the same people signed a bill making it mandatory that the Bible be taught in every school, so they definitly didn't mean it to keep it out of the school. But anyway back to the matter at hand.

Whoever the religious right endorses will probably win. GWB won by 4 million votes more than Kerry, a record. It was because of the above mentioned issues. They are prepared for what they see as a battle not easily won and many more conservatives will vote each election because the church is growing at such a high rate for the last 10 yrs. In history the last time it grew this fast was after Christ was crucified in the 1st century. So it will be well deserved if a Democrat wins cuz they are gonna work for it. To them it is a matter of life and death, not just about a womans right to choose. So the drive is a lot stronger and like you said about people in large numbers...I had a shirt that said "Never underestimate the ability of stupid people in large numbers to totally fuck it up? And it is true, and these people aren't stupid, they are acting on their convictions, kinda like when Islamics fly planes into buildings. It is direct obedience to what their Bible says. So both have been shown that they shouldn't ever be underestimated. Course then there is a God factor. If there is a God, which I do believe there is. If what they believe is true then it is really hard to beat God , right? If there is I can't see him being cool with tearing your soon to be child apart and discarding him or her, but that is between them and Him. I tell Christians they should forget about the abortion issue because it really isn't up to them to worry about everyone else and plus those who are against it , wont get them while if those who do keep getting them then there will eventually be no more of those who do think it is ok, they will become extinct if the conservatives raise their kids to believe it is murder. My ex got an abortion at 7 months in Mass, I don't give a fuck what anybody says, that wasn't her choice anymore. That baby could have been taken out in one piece and would have been able to breath on its own, yet she chose to have them tear its arms and legs off with this icecream scoop-lookin thing. I want to punch her in the head. They asked if she wanted to give the baby some morphine to ease the pain. How can it feel pain if it isn't a baby and on the other side why can't we kill infants, the only difference is a few months out of the hole, still even look the same>? Be like, "Nah, fuck this stayin up all night, I don't want lil Jimmie in the more." "ok, hunny, we'l go have him aborted, he doesn't even talk so he isn't really a person", can't contribute to society, you know? So in the case of my ex her and the Dr should be in jail. Now she can't have kids and it serves her right. So many people can't have kids that she should have just waited another month and had the kid and gave it away. Her answer was she would have wanted to keep it, well tough shit, should have thought of that. She had full birth control coverage but was too lazy to pick em up. That is like one of the few times I didn't bleach my needle shootin up and I got Hep C, well I should have known better, but there are consequences for our actions and often they make us better people when we deal with em. Running and covering up stuff has never done good to anyone. That's my opinion. There should be a very short timetable, like a month-month and a half and that is it. My friends twins were 1.2 lbs or 1.5lbs each when they were born 5 or 6 months premature and they lived. So butting out is always the best way on that subject. It would be like an investment in the future. Meanwhile allowing them their right to choose. Its a win/win...hehe I am so high right now I keep going off track. I have heard quite a few Christians talk about Romney and it seems that many still will vote for him because the mormon moral standards are the same so there would be no laws that would further infringe on Christians rights. Huckabee is a major possibility. I am curious to see how Super Tuesday goes. Most Christians I have talked to said he was their 1st choice but didn't think he had a chance so they moved on to Romney and some to McCain or Thompson. The right isn't endorsing Ron Paul so don't know what would happen if by some miracle he got the nomination. I Think Hillary is hoping on evangelical women who are anxious to see a woman president so they can really say there is equal opportunity in America, but most people wont trade in their faith for anything, especially progress, when most of what is considered progress by liberals is considered the demoralizing of America, as if there are no consequences for the choices we make.

I am really anxious to see what happens but some of the liberals will note vote for the other candidate show who they want lose, so you may see a significant decrease in the numbers of democrats from the primary where as on the republican side you will see a significant amount more show up after the primary's as a wake up call that they might lose and with the push of the religious right it will definitly never again be a shoe-in for democrats. The last census said 76.1% of Americans say they are Christian. And though we know many don't act like it there is still a very large number that do. 76.1% of 306 million people is what? Even shaving some off that is a lot of people. I think 30-40% showed up for GWB over the 20% average prior to the Clinton Administration. So I predict it will be higher this year. There is more at stake.

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blackegg said:

Yeah, as mad as the phony, fat-cat, tag-teaming Clintons make me...I'll still be relieved when the country is finally turned back over to someone who knows how to balance the budget and not torture people.

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fireworks_god said:

Oh really? And who would that be?

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Let  me guess...

Madtowntripper said:

Let  me guess...

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I don't know, because the Republicans seem just as guilty of it as the Democrats certainly are. There is one candidate who would stop our military presence overseas in order to directly save close to a trillion dollars in federal spending. This is probably the most that any one candidate for President could to to stop federal spending.

Don't count on Hillary or Obama to do anything regarding the size and scope of the federal government but facilliate the expansion and expense of the federal government by passing through all the spending legislature of the Democratic-controlled Congress. This is the same thing that happened with Bush from 2000 to 2006.

Anyone who doesn't realize the severe threat the federal government is posing towards the American economy isn't paying attention to the nature of reality. The taxes are never questioned because people are conditioned to the fact that they are taxed. The inflation is never questioned because people don't really realize what inflation is and what it means. People at least understand how the printing of money is not helping us, how the borrowing from other countries is not helping us. Some realize that the federal spending is truly to blame.

While they work through some kind of tax rebate, why aren't people asking "Why don't they just not tax our paychecks for a couple weeks?" Wouldn't that be the simplest answer to stimulating the economy - just don't take the money out of the economy in the first place?

If people asked that, then we'd be making progress. Its happening, mostly due to the awareness generated by the presence of Ron Paul. If anyone's policy for President is not to signfigantly reduce the spending of the federal government in order to save our economy, then you are voting for a deep American recession. A Democratic congress would probably find the answer to be to increase taxes. Why raise taxes but not stop borrowing or printing? They couldn't stop taking everyone's taxes from one week's pay, because they've borrowed so much that stays in perpetuation that the government would probably go bankrupt right then. Of course, they can always introduce a forty-teen trillion dollar spending bill to solve all our problems.

Icelander said:

There is no doubt in my mind that the majority of Americans can and usually will pick the worst candidate possible from among a large group of losers.

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Yes, because there are never any natural forces working to engage the majority of Americans in idea-exchange, and the corporate media certainly doesn't serve better understanding of the candidates who are running and the issues.

Its hard for that to be transcended when some people don't even participate in politics in the slightest. Don't be surprised though, it is easier to lament the voting of a majority of Americans if one never votes and never gets involved in the political process.