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InvisibleLenore
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Registered: 01/30/00
Posts: 366
Re: Dems political strategy is to demonize Christians [Re: Innvertigo]
    #511567 - 01/05/02 09:32 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Innvertigo, your topic reeks of a foul stench.

Obviously the Democrats have never had the conservative christian vote. Mostely because these groups care nothing for things like social welfare and state led policies.

Regardless of Right wing christian's being good or bad, you have bought into the whole christian discourse of how the world works. To "demonize" christians would be to simply admit that christianity is universally correct, and then condemn it. Demonizing is a christian concept, of course you can hardly be blamed, your only quoting a source from the news, the news which happens to be owned by christians.

Last election the Republicans actually lost millions of votes in the bible belt. Take a look at what the top Republican political advisors are telling bush and his cronies, being a compassionate(false moderate) conservative may have hurt your powerbase.

Personally i cannot understand anyone who hates homosexuals, single mothers, artistic and intellectual freedom, who propounds a selfish view of the world, whose political actions are based on mystical convictions. What an absurd way to live!

did you all hear recently about the bible thumpers in the south who decided it would be proper to burn harry potter books? these are Bush's lowely constituents.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Dems political strategy is to demonize Christians [Re: Lenore]
    #511631 - 01/05/02 10:24 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Lemore, your post indicates little if any thought on the subject...
In reply to:

Obviously the Democrats have never had the conservative christian vote. Mostely because these groups care nothing for things like social welfare and state led policies.



Wrong, mostly because most democrats are in favor of murdering little babies and Christians aren't.
In reply to:

Regardless of Right wing christian's being good or bad, you have bought into the whole christian discourse of how the world works. To "demonize" christians would be to simply admit that christianity is universally correct, and then condemn it. Demonizing is a christian concept, of course you can hardly be blamed, your only quoting a source from the news, the news which happens to be owned by christians.



This newspaper I quoted the article from is NOT a Christian source. It is a completely secular source.
In reply to:

Last election the Republicans actually lost millions of votes in the bible belt. Take a look at what the top Republican political advisors are telling bush and his cronies, being a compassionate(false moderate) conservative may have hurt your powerbase.



Do you have any evidence to affirm that statement?
In reply to:

Personally i cannot understand anyone who hates homosexuals, single mothers, artistic and intellectual freedom, who propounds a selfish view of the world, whose political actions are based on mystical convictions. What an absurd way to live!



Christians do not hate homosexuals, single mothers, and artists. We love them. And as far as homosexuality goes we accept the fact that it is morally abominable and sinful. More single mothers would be good if it would end abortion. Christians are in favor of family values, unlike homosexuals and you.
In reply to:

did you all hear recently about the bible thumpers in the south who decided it would be proper to burn harry potter books? these are Bush's lowely constituents.



Oh yeah, I forgot about that pro-Bush rally they held right after the book burning... Those were meatheads, not republicans...


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisibleisis
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Re: Dems political strategy is to demonize Christians [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #511961 - 01/06/02 07:16 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

In reply to:

Christians are in favor of family values, unlike homosexuals and you.



I have heard that statement so many times, and I just don't get it. I love family values, and Iam gay. My family is the most important thing in my life. I would do anything to protect them. Our home is filled with love.If ever a child came into our lives, it would be loved and cared for. I enjoy it so much when I see a good strong family who loves their children. Iam not against any family values. I may disagree with you on what the makeup of a family can be,but that doesn't mean gay peope are against family values. I have yet to meet one gay person that has said "I hate family values". All the gay people I know do not hate the traditional family. However, what they do hate is when a group of people try to tell them that they cannot have a family. That their family somehow is not real or legitamate. Worst yet, that their family in some way inferior to the traditional family. We don't hate family values. What we do hate is when a group of people assume that the family idea is reserved just for them. We also hate it when Christians go out of their way to legally keep us from building the families we wish to have. That is what we hate.....not family values. We hate people interfering with our right to personal happiness. Have your wonderful traditional families, but also let me have mine.
I think our need to build our own families has been mistaken for us hating family values. If not mistaken, then misrepresented as such.



Edited by isis (01/06/02 07:21 AM)


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Dems political strategy is to demonize Christians [Re: isis]
    #512059 - 01/06/02 11:56 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Isis, you have to concede that you are opposed to traditional family values. Traditionaly and naturally a family is a man and a woman that get married and have kids. You may not be opposed to that concept but you want to expand the term family to include homosexual unions which are unnatural and can not conceive children. If you were to 'acquire' a child it wouldn't be by natural means but by adoption. The child you would adopt would have no choice but to be subjected to growing up in the homosexual environment instead of a normal and natural family. And that is wrong and it should be opposed. Natural law is always correct and natural law is what most people go by. Natural law dictates that homosexuals can not procreate so we should not artificially interfere with nature by permitting homosexuals to adopt children or be 'married' in a mockery of true marriage which is intended to beget children.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisibleisis
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Re: Dems political strategy is to demonize Christians [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #512260 - 01/06/02 04:18 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

That's kinda funny.Last I heard I was more than capable of having children and procreating. I can have child in a natural way or in a scienticfic way.My last choice is adoption.See science is way beyond you guys.By way beyond,I mean more advanced in thinking. I can have a child by invitro ferilization ,or simply by choosing a male friend to have one with or by adoption. Choosing a male friend is my first chooice.This of course are unnatural to you unless man and a woman do it.Then, it becomes natural.
Whatever. All, Iam saying that you guys are the ones with the problem. We are not out trying to stop you from having families nor are we trying to change the way you do things. All we want is for you guys to let us be. You guys are the ones with the problem. By the way, children who grow up in homosexual homes grow up well adjusted. Their biggest danger is people like you telling them something is wrong with their family and taunting them,hurting them, and making them feel like somethign is wrong with them. If we didn't have evil people telling them that their families are wrong, they would enjoy an even better life. You are the ones that subject them to painful statement. You are the ones that do the ignorant name calling. You and your method of thinking is their biggest danger.
There are millions of children without parents and without homes in this country. Most states will not allow gay couples or single people to adopt. Yet, there they sit in a orphanage.Alone and miserable. I have yet to meet someone that grew up as a ward of the state that has fond memories of their child hood. Most have deep psychological wounds. Most of them do not have good childhood. You say to adopt them out to traditional families. Guess what?There are not enough traditional families that want these children. Yet ,you would prefer them to live this miserable live rather than allow them to be adopted to a gay couple or a single parent.(who may be gay) This is simply shameful.A child given love and encouragement shall flourish. Sure it is nice to have a mom and a dad,but many beautiful people just have a dad or two dads or two moms or simply a mom. The truth be told there are many non traditional families out there that are raising well adjusted children. To be loved is to be loved Rail gun, and it definately beats growing up knowing no one wanted you or cared for you.
Now, if the above statement means Iam against family values then so be it. I just find it weird that wanting to provide love for more children means Iam against family values.
I completely understand what you mean though. Iam against some one telling me that a family unit is reserved only for heterosexual people.Iam against someone telling me I cannot raise my own child.My own flesh and blood or an adopted child. I would raise a child on my own if I so choose. So, Iam against someone telling me what the make up of my family should be,or that the particular make up I have choosen is wrong. The makeup of my family as it stands is stable,healthy,peaceful, nourishing and simply beautiful.


Edited by isis (01/06/02 04:21 PM)


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InvisibleLenore
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Registered: 01/30/00
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Re: Dems political strategy is to demonize Christians [Re: isis]
    #512462 - 01/06/02 07:25 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

ok, Innvertiwhatever... so you didn't understand anything i said, fine.

I was referring to your treatment of the subject as a subject of a regime of truth. Like it or not your "secular source" is entirely christian in context like most everthing in this nation, even those things which profess not to be. Demonize Christians Ha!

As for "Traditionaly and naturally a family is a man and a woman that get married and have kids."
your wrong. Homosexuals can be traced into the most ancient of civilizations and as many biologist and anthropoligist have pointed out have a specific and important function in the survival of humans as a natural species. So before you casually use the word Nature, please think. Homosexuals are Natural, or else no such thing as human nature can exist.

Right wing christians are simply a form of fundamentalist religious culture. All their convictions in the end are based upon irrational, mystical beliefs. Therfore, when it comes to politics, as Popper would say, Fuck them!


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Anonymous

Re: Dems political strategy is to demonize Christians [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #513493 - 01/07/02 05:11 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Your definition of value and natural are as lacking as the bible you base them on, or at least your interpretation of that bible.
If something occurs in NATURE is it natural? Traditions are not universal. One cultures sin is another cultures sacrament. Who cares if gays want to be gay, how in the world does that effect anyone? What does it do to you? You are not GOD, who the hell are you to judge? If Gays are sinners they will burn for it. If they want to raise kids, who the hell are you to say no. You can say you don't like it, but you should not be able to make it illegal. For conservatives, you guys are not conservative. Conservative means butting out, not butting in. Conservative does not mean intervention, or morality. The last conservative party in America is the Libertarian party. The Republicans are as intrusive as the Democrats. They both want to tell you what is right and what is wrong. Not in the form of opinions, and through their own lifestyles, but in Laws enforced on others.
Fuck the DEMOCRATS, FUCK the REPUBLICANS you all look like the same thing. Stay out of peoples lives. If you see someone actually phisically hurting someone, or stealing, or something that has a victim, call a cop. If something offends you ignore it. If you think it is immoral don't do it. But stay out of others lives!!!!!!! You want FREEDOM, you can't handle it.


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Anonymous

Re: Dems political strategy is to demonize Christians [Re: ]
    #513495 - 01/07/02 05:18 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

And by the way, Abortions are not LEGAL, they are ILLEGAL to make ILLEGAL. At least as it stands in the highest court of this SECULAR nation of the USA. Which is not an elected body, but an appointed body.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Dems political strategy is to demonize Christians [Re: Lenore]
    #514151 - 01/08/02 08:06 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

***ok, Innvertiwhatever... so you didn't understand anything i said, fine***

who are you trying to argue with?

****Therfore, when it comes to politics, as Popper would say, Fuck them! ****

you want me to respond to that?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineElPrimo
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Registered: 09/29/01
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Re: Dems political strategy is to demonize Christians [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #560309 - 02/23/02 12:13 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

A whole hell of a lot of Christians deserve to be demonized. It isn't just an aberration that the Aryan Nation pushes the cross. I've seem thousands of these folks, getting dressed up in their Sunday finest to go 'worship the Lord'. What a crock. I grew up among these hypocritics.

From being against the rights of Blacks to vote in the 60's to electing politicians who hold down blacks today. Most are Republican, like Falwell and Pat Robertson. Pat Robertson, here's a guy who ran for President in the Republican primary and garnered hundreds of thousanbds of votes. This is a guy who used to stand on the steps of universities and preach about how whites shouldn't marry blacks because it was against the bible and God's will.

He's become more politically correct today of course. He just goes after gays and the ACLU. Christians are mostly a bunch of near sighted, selfish, self rightious, hypocritical dumb asses, IMO. The Wholly Babble is more like what they adhere to.

Of course, I have heard of nice Christians who help others and care about the poor and those who are less fortunate. It's just that I haven't seen too many of them.



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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Dems political strategy is to demonize Christians [Re: ElPrimo]
    #560324 - 02/23/02 12:44 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

So basicly a lot of Christians aren't politically correct and you disagree with them. That's fine. I disagree with a lot of them too. I'm a born again Christian and to some degree I've been a hypicrite too, but I do my best, but I am weak. The thing about Christians is that we're not perfect. We try to be but we make mistakes like anyone else. And when we do then we have the LORD to help us get back up and not make the same mistake again.

But you can't just lump all Christians together and say we're the aryan nations looking to lynch you because you're different than us. That just isn't true.

And another thing about being a Christian is that we are politically incorrect. We are against abortion, euthenasia (assisted suicide), and organized groups like the ACLU which try to puch tolerance of bad things at us. I remember right after the sept 11 attack a school in some small town put out a sign that said 'God bless America'. They were trying to support our nation in our time of need with an inspirational and patriotic message. 'God bless America', there coupldn't be anything wrong with that, it is just a nice thing, right? Wrong! The ACLU took this little school district to court to make them take wown the sign that said 'God bless America' saying that it was a 'hateful and devisive message'. And they won of course. But the people in this little town and the town around it held a big demonstration in front of the little school and a couple thousand showed up dressed in red, white, and blue with signs saying 'God bless America' and 'USA Rules" and that sort of thing.

The ACLU deserves to be bashed. They are the most unamerican nasty group of people in the mainstream part of America. Maybe if they would support the whole constitution (like the 2nd amendment) and not just the parts they agree with then I would have a different opinion of them. But I don't like them because they think 'God bless America' is a 'hateful devisive message', and for other reasons as well.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineGod_Killer
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Re: Dems political strategy is to demonize Christians [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #560524 - 02/23/02 09:44 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I'm gonna have to disagree with the statement that homosexuality is not natural on the simple basis that it does happen in nature. Damn near all animals will try tyo screw the hell out of anything that moves. I is a redneck country boy and I've seen bulls,stud horses,dogs, goats etc.etc. etc. try to mount other male animals. Even monkeys and apes perform sex acts with members of the same gender. While I personaly find homosexuality somewhat distasteful I couldn't let that one slip by without pointing out the obvious.


--------------------
Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy.-Benjamin Franklin


Edited by God_Killer (02/23/02 09:47 AM)


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OfflineElPrimo
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Re: Dems political strategy is to demonize Christians [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #560942 - 02/23/02 07:15 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

No, you are wrong. I would distrust just about anything you were to post. I certainly don't believe your version of that heart wrenching 'God Bless America' bullshit. The way you guys distort the truth is dispicable.

I have yet to see a myoptic Christian who truly believes that others are entitled to just as much religious freedom as themselves. Why should they, when they think they are the true representatives of God, fighting evil.

Take that Texas High School case that went to the Supreme Court. The one where they were having this big group prayer before every football game. This case was brought by the ACLU. You purveyors of distortion and falsehood would have everyone believe the dirty athiests and Christian haters were behind this suit.

The truth is that the ACLU represented 2 families in that suit. One family was Catholic and the other was Mormon. Even the Supreme Court voted 9-0 in support of their case. (yes, even that jerk Scalia knew better). But did any of you admit this, that you were forcing others to follow your beliefs? ... no way, even GW Bush said the decision was regretable.

I guess I should show more understanding of you guys because you're just dumb and actually think you are doing the right thing. But then, so did all those Nazis, and so did the Taliban.


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Offlinethenetherworld
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Re: Dems political strategy is to demonize Christians [Re: Lenore]
    #561139 - 02/23/02 11:37 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I am still amazed that thought everyone thinks Hitler was evil incarnate for the atrocities he commited against the Jews, everyone fails to mention how upon the invasion of Europe by Christianity it is estimate over 14 million were slaughtered. Then came the "middle ages," a period of time in which several enlightening laws were passed, some being, it was illegal to learn to read and take a bath. Christian influenced government led to such things as the "Spanish Inquisition" and similiar actions in other nations in Europe. Hands down Christianity has murdered millions more people than the Nazi's and we still have a discussion of if they are "right" or not. I live in the Bible belt, a place that time forgot, its a great public uproar if someone wants to drink a beer,smoke a joint, or have sex. In fact Many industries avoid commiting to this area because of the backwardness that exists and most of it (the backwardness) stems from the fact there is a bunch of biggoted,hating,christians anywhere and everywhere you look. The standing joke is who will fuck you the most, a prostitute,or a christian. Either will, but the christian will rob you when the job is over. This country was not founded by the christians,for the christians, and mainly just without them. Why we are brainwashed to think they had such an impact is beyond any and all common sense. What forward thinking,advancing,technological,anything does any christian support?They are predjudice to the hilt, the bible says that any that do not believe should be put to the sword. The new testament says nothing about hating homosexuals but its christianity's most vocal political agenda. They talk about nothing but how great they are and what a wonderous book their religion comes from , but if you read it, they cant say anything about whoremongers, everyone in the bible fucked everyone they saw in the name of god, and besides all that it is no diffferent than greek mythology. Talking snakes,spontaneously combusting plants, virgin births for crying out loud. All I can say to anyone that wants to argue is for them to prove anything in that book. After all if their god is so all encompassing it shouldnt be a problem should it. Dont try to talk about the fairy tales and myths, give me some hard facts. There arent any so this should be interesting. It would be a hilarious subject if those freaks werent out to destroy all knowlege, like the vote in Kansas on teaching evolution that lost(amazing) but luckily was reinstated last year. Wouldnt we be a progressive nation if it was illegal to teach our children about life and its existence before 6000 yrs ago(when creationist say the world was created) I bet the internet would be the first thing to be abolished. It would be too hard for them to control. People would only be allowed to love each other if it suited the veiws of the bible(to which most christians dont read anyway) I think christianity is an issue that should be kept private like what a person does behind their bedroom door. If it gets talked about too much it only leads to problems.
The other thing that amuses me most is how christians go on and on about single mothers, teenage pregnancy, and things like that , but refuse to think about who rammed the rod in mary's ass to knock her up. In this day and age only ignorance could believe pregnancy just happens to those that are holy and pure.roflmfao. Its a cult, a brainwashed cult, I escaped, and am very happy about it. I only pity those that try to cling to the outdated, idiotic views, and only show their true stupidity, but that pity ends when they start trying to say what everyone else should believe or do. Then I start thinking about how much better my children would be if those stupid************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** were eradicated from the face of our planet. And honestly I believe that is the only solution.


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