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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Interesting Neurology Experiment
    #7844201 -

Scientists at the University of Florida took a piece of rat cortex (brain) and attached it to a computer running a flight simulator program. The neurons send the program flight control inputs and the program sends the neurons the result of applying those control inputs.

At first it just crashes, but after a bit of trial and error, the neurons begin to self-wire such that the plane no longer crashes. A little more practice and the neurons learn to fly the plane around mountains and bad weather all by themselves.

This may be similar to how a 'blank' brain is born in a baby and by trial and error and experience, learns to wire itself up to achieve self-awareness.

It's pretty deep and more evidence suggesting that human consciousness isn't magic or special or God-created. We function according to natural (not supernatural) laws just like everything else in the universe. A magical 'soul' (or whatever you wanna call it) is not necessary for human consciousness.

Eventually, science will construct a sophisticated brain with all the emotions, ambition, and creativity we have, and it will do it without magic.

Watch the video:



--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: Diploid]
    #7844236 -

More importantly, a chunk of rat brain is cheaper and more reliable than an alcoholic American Airlines pilot.


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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: Diploid]
    #7844331 -

I watched a program last night about stuff like this....
Kurzweil says that the singularity is calculated to be 2029 - when computer sophistication is equal to the human brain - and it's understanding....
And that 99% of these brain bio/mech/comp projects are funded by a governmental branch called DARPA - with a $3.2billion yearly budget....

Not sure why it is called the singularity, when there already was one.....    :ohwell:
It's kinda~ neat, it is also kind of scary, the implications are deep....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7844346 -

DARPA helped invent the internet back when 1,200 baud modems were fast.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: Diploid]
    #7844393 -

Yes, I read that too....    :thumbup:
I went to their site last night after the show and seen some neat satellite stuff they did last year too....
I looked it up because it is within driving distance, and I was curious about a tour....  :lol:    No can do....!

Not saying DARPA is a bad thing, not at all - I am relatively ignorant about it all....
But, wielding such power, well, it is a double edged sword....
In the past, us humans have (generally) proven that power corrupts, and we fall....
Will this next time be different....?


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: Diploid]
    #7844447 -

woop woop throw it up for UF! :laugh:


pretty sweet though


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7846936 -

fuck yeah.

as a sci-fi utopia supporter i give brains that control computer programs 2 thumbs up.

reading stuff like this makes me sad though, because i'm probably going to die just as the really awesome stuff becomes commercially available, an my grandkids are probably going to get live forever as part of a borg-esque hive mind. the lucky bastards.


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: Diploid]
    #7846972 -

Just because organic material was used does not suddenly mean that we are suddenly dealing with genuine creativity and emotion. Though I am no expert on this, the artificial intelligence described sounded no different in function than the inorganic AI of today.

Basically, if you want to make the case you described, you have to explain how the function is different.

You still have intelligence that is determined by nothing other than trial and error, which is geared toward an external goal. (staying in the air)

This is run of the mill AI

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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: daytripper23]
    #7846980 -

It's not AI, or not really AI, at all.

Wetware you could call it. Having the brain-machine interaction is cool and all...but it isn't machine intelligence.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: daytripper23]
    #7846995 -

Basically, if you want to make the case you described, you have to explain how the function is different.

It's different because it's being done with what amounts to a nascent brain. That's a pile of mostly-unconnected neurons, just like a human baby's brain.

Then it learns to fly, not by following an algorithm like conventional AI does, but by self-assembling the neuronal wiring until it learns to fly.

This is exactly what a baby's brain does when it learn its mother's face. The only difference is that this experiment was done with 25 thousand neurons and babies do it with 100 billion.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: truekimbo2]
    #7847768 -

truekimbo2 said:
fuck yeah.

as a sci-fi utopia supporter i give brains that control computer programs 2 thumbs up.

reading stuff like this makes me sad though, because i'm probably going to die just as the really awesome stuff becomes commercially available, an my grandkids are probably going to get live forever as part of a borg-esque hive mind. the lucky bastards.


i read somewhere that the generations in college now, could be the firts generations to not have to die.

i mean, you have to take this with a grain of salt but hey, maybe you'll be in luck after all :P


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.


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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: igwna]
    #7847776 -

You call that luck?:rofl2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: Icelander]
    #7847784 -

Icelander said:
You call that luck?:rofl2:


haha, truth.

i for one, do not want to live forever.
but he made it seem like he did.

his luck doesn't have to be my luck.


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.


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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: igwna]
    #7847797 -

I don't think theres a rats ass chance of living forever. It's all death anxiety IMO.

But living as if death doesn't matter would be very worthwhile as far as the experience of living goes.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: Icelander]
    #7851655 -

you have to die if you have a conventional human body, but i mean they already have artificial hearts, dialysis machines, ect. i can imagine the generation after mine starting to live into the 150 year range with these sort of things, and then i can imagine when THEY die and my grandkids are in their old age they would have successfully figured out cybernetic brains or consciousness transfers into machines and so on.


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: truekimbo2]
    #7851765 -

The concept of a singular consciousness is absurd when you investigate it.

There is progress leading to implants for the blind to have artificial vision (http://www.seeingwithsound.com/etumble.htm). If we can link "our" vision up to a machine, why not the ear? Why not the tongue? Why not everything else as well?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: psyka]
    #7851788 -

why is the concept of a singular consciousness absurd?

if we can hook up vision to a machine, why not everyone's vision to the same machine? why can't you view everyone's vision instead of just your own? and then apply that to everything else.

to be honest though i don't really think each person will be able to encapsulate the whole, but i do think that there will be a single whole of humanity that resides in a machine, and people will be able to access it, become hosts for it.


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: truekimbo2]
    #7851818 -

What?

I didn't state myself clearly.

We have six senses.
1) vision
2) smell
3) taste
4) hearing
5) touch
6) thinking

Attaching a person to those things is what people refer to as a self. When the reality is those things exist and there is no inherent self. There is no reason why a being with enough mental capacity could not see others vision as well. Its a matter of processing power, not some magical ingredient.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

Edited by psyka (01/09/08 01:02 AM)

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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: Diploid]
    #7853102 -

As soon as sensory differentiation  (ie, crashing vs. not crashing) is established, one could say that the seed of self has germinated; however, if said neuron soup became self aware, to what world would it find itself immersed in? 

Does anyone know what I am talking about?  I cant seem to find the right words to elaborate... 

:hippie:

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Re: Interesting Neurology Experiment [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #7853122 -

You're asking if it became aware, what would it be aware of?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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