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JunkFood
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: MOTH]
#7572861 - 10/29/07 12:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
MOTH said: Does organic/local farm/free-range cheese also make the animal suffer?
What is the vegan position on free-range eggs?
"Free-range" is not a legal industry term; therefore it is essentially meaningless. Farmers use the term to imply that they practice a more humane standard of production but, in reality, there is no regulation regarding how the word is interpreted or used. Although most consumers imagine free-range hens have access to the outdoors with plenty of sunlight, vegetation, and normal social interaction, to most egg producers, the "range" is simply a bigger cage than those in which battery-caged hens are kept.
Free-range egg farming is, above all else, a business. Consequently, profit surpasses concern for the animals' comfort, welfare, or behavioral needs. In addition, it is common for free-range layers to be debeaked just like battery-caged layers.
But even if free-range hens were treated with kindness and given all the space they could use, they will still be killed for meat when their egg production wanes, usually after one or two years, even though in a natural environment a hen could live fifteen years. And, like all other animals raised for food, they will be subjected to the horrors and abuses of transportation, handling, and slaughter.
An inherent problem with all egg production, whether free-range or battery-caged, is the disposal of unwanted male chicks at the hatchery. Because male chicks don't lay eggs and do not grow fast enough to be raised profitably for meat, they are deemed a financial liability, except for the few used as rooster studs. On average, one rooster is used to service ten hens. Hence, nine out of ten male chicks are considered virtually useless and will be killed by the cheapest means available, including suffocation and being ground up alive.
No matter what words or systems are used to candy coat animal production, when we treat sentient beings as commodities we invariably invite abuse. From a vegan perspective, the use of animals for human profit or gain, regardless of how they are raised or treated, is incompatible with vegan principles and the practice of compassionate living.
http://www.vegsource.com/jo/qa/qaeggs.htm
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: MOTH]
#7573272 - 10/29/07 03:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Moth, apparently A cow gives milk for about a little less than a year after giving birth, and it slowly declines.
I think that if someone can think of a way to make vegan cheese without milk (using natural veg rennet), then we'd never have to worry about it again.
Here's an informative page on rennet:
http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/archive/index.php/t-5567.html
Edited by jonathan_206 (10/29/07 03:06 PM)
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7573318 - 10/29/07 03:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I did some research of my own and found out that some organic farmers are using "microbes" instead of rennet to make the cheese.
Thanks for the link...the cheese thing has been on my mind lately. I just don't know if I can ever enjoy it again knowing it's made out of enzymes taken from a stomach of a cow or a pig. That's kinda gross.
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Asante
Mage


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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: MOTH]
#7573339 - 10/29/07 03:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Theres no need for rennet. The Hindus make cheese by combining 2-3 parts of hot milk with 1 part of yoghurt. At these ratios the pH cancels out and the curd separates from the whey.
Pour through a cloth, compress to a lump and presto, there's fresh cheese. If you worked hygienically you can age it to cheeses we know.
I did this myself, it works.
Alternatively you can add vinegar to hot milk - same effect.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: MOTH]
#7573342 - 10/29/07 03:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yay! I just found out that my most favorite type of cheese to eat at home (boursin) does not contain rennet. Phew.
Quote:
Boursin FAQ’s
What is Gournay Cheese? When Francois Boursin first sold his creation, he was asked to classify it for customs purposes. He chose the name "Gournay" for his cheese, naming it for the small town in France where he grew up.
Today, every package of Boursin® is labeled "All Natural Gournay Cheese," the legal standard of identity for Boursin.
Back to Top
Is Boursin kosher? A reflection of the highest quality standards, Boursin's Garlic & Fine Herbs, Pepper, Shallot & Chive, Fig, Raisin & Nut, Cranberry Pepper (holiday item) and Garlic and Fine Herbs Toppers are certified kosher by the Orthodox Union.
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Why is Boursin wrapped in foil? Boursin's unique packaging was designed to keep Boursin fresh, make it easy to unwrap and rewrap, and make an attractive presentation on a cheese board.
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Is Boursin gluten free? Yes, all Boursin flavors are gluten free.
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Do any of the Boursin products contain allergens? All of the Boursin products contain milk and Boursin Fig, Raisin & Nut contains milk and nuts.
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What does the Best Before date mean? The Best Before date is located on the top of the package. It is the date the product must be purchased by to ensure optimum freshness.
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Can Boursin be frozen? Freezing Boursin is not recommended.
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Why doesn’t my store carry all of the Boursin Flavors? Each store decides which flavors it will carry. If you are looking for a particular flavor, ask the Deli Manager about ordering it.
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What type of milk is used? Cow’s milk is used in the production of Boursin cheeses.
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Does Boursin contain rennet? Boursin cheeses do not contain any type of rennet.
I'm kinda relieved. I can see myself giving up all cheeses that use rennet. Maybe I'm not ready to go pure vegan though, because admittedly I love boursin cheese on rosemary crackers.
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: Asante]
#7573346 - 10/29/07 03:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: Theres no need for rennet. The Hindus make cheese by combining 2-3 parts of hot milk with 1 part of yoghurt. At these ratios the pH cancels out and the curd separates from the whey.
Pour through a cloth, compress to a lump and presto, there's fresh cheese. If you worked hygienically you can age it to cheeses we know.
I did this myself, it works.
Alternatively you can add vinegar to hot milk - same effect.
That's exciting. I can't wait to possibly make my own cheese one day.
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maggotz


Registered: 06/24/06
Posts: 7,539
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: Asante]
#7573370 - 10/29/07 03:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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that's aweful man. even when they had already skinned the animals alive they just threw in the pile still alive. can't they just kill them first at least?
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Boom
just a tester

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 11,252
Loc: Cypress Creek
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: Asante]
#7573380 - 10/29/07 03:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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That seems like an extreme example used for shock value
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JunkFood
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: Boom]
#7573491 - 10/29/07 04:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Boom said: That seems like an extreme example used for shock value
You don't think the fur farm that footage was taken on does that regularly?
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ChiefGreenLeaf

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,596
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: Meepp]
#7573618 - 10/29/07 04:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wiccan Seeker what is the name of that song in your vid. I love it, but it sure is going to bring up some bad images now.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
#7573654 - 10/29/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Log in to view attachment
Quote:
You don't think the fur farm that footage was taken on does that regularly?
The fur farm is in China. Someone heard of the atrocities, took a cam and shot that on a random day. (a lot of other equally bad stuff too, including dogs) As you see, no effort is taken to shoo off the cameraman. It was normal, run-of-the-mill practice there. The flayer is obviously "just doing his job" as he considers it.
Quote:
Wiccan Seeker what is the name of that song in your vid. I love it, but it sure is going to bring up some bad images now.
It's "The Unforgiven" (original from Metallica) performed on 4 chello's by Apocalyptica. It has anger, despair but overall sadness, which I found fitting. I'll attach it.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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maggotz


Registered: 06/24/06
Posts: 7,539
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: Asante]
#7573668 - 10/29/07 05:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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apocalyptica is awesome. 
what do they do with the carcasses?
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: maggotz]
#7573736 - 10/29/07 05:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
what do they do with the carcasses?
In a fox fur farm they feed the carcasses to the other animals.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Adom
Totally Nude


Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 10,877
Loc: Way Up North
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: JunkFood]
#7573776 - 10/29/07 05:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am, I pay my local government what I can afford to give in time and money.
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Leanin
Student of theIron Game


Registered: 04/18/06
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7573830 - 10/29/07 05:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
jonathan_206 said:
Quote:
Jonathan, thanks for replying, I was just thinking about my liking for cheese and whether or not I should attempt to retrain my brain about that a few moments ago while taking a shower. Then I come and read your post. 
Does organic/local farm/free-range cheese also make the animal suffer? What if they don't constantly rebreed them? If I got a cow and milked it every once in awhile to make homemade cheese, would that make the animal suffer?
I am not talking about mass cheese production, where no doubt the farmers force cows to produce milk by excessive breeding. I'm talking about conscious milk production where the cows produce milk naturally and then it is milked. Such a thing has to exist....I hope.
I think that if you got a cow of your own and took care of it, and it gave milk that would be just fine. I don't know however how long a cow's milking period is. Maybe they milk their whole life, just not as much as when they're nursing. I think though that you would have to have it give birth to start with, that's my honest guess. But you know there are some pretty good vegan cheese out there. The follow your heart brand I think is pretty good, at least the mozzerella. Once more people become vegans then food will get better. But I was reading that there is a vegetable derived rennet, and I am hoping someday perhaps a vegan cheese can be made of it.
Cheese is a tough point for a lot of people to become vegans. It's really a drug, like meat. It seriously is. I don't remember all the facts about it, but it's physically addictive from what I remember. Eating vegan just isn't the same. In my opinion, it can be better, or it can be worse. It all depends on how you go about it.
You could get a little goat, and milk it. But you might have to again make it give birth.
I think I have a few recipes for vegan cheese. Pm me if you would like them.
leanin:
Quote:
I trap every winter for money/recreation/damage control for farmers.
You hunt down and kill innocent animals for recreation?
This is exactly why I hate hunting. Because it's a cop out when people say they do it just for food. If you were really concerned about food, you wouldn't have spent all that money on hunting supplies permits gas to go hunt down an innocent animal for fun.
It's totally insane for people to behave the way they do in this thread towards vegetarianism and then not expect vegans to be mad at you. You are behaving like absolute scum. It's outrageous.
Why do you feel the need to post videos of animal torture videos in contempt for veganism? That is wicked. You are doing it to the offense of others. Because deep down, you know it's wrong the way you're behaving, and selfish.And so you lash out.
I don't look down on meat eaters, if they have a good attitude. But the attitudes I see here are rotten. You provoke others, and cause much hurt. You disregard animals feelings and the sanctity of life. And then when they get mad, you call them peta freaks.
First, wake up and realize that you are a living creature, and that all life is sacred and worth consideration and they need compassion and mercy and they feel pain like you do. Then, stop stereotyping people and acting like immature jerks, trying to show how tough you are because you can watch an animal being killed or kill an animal. It's pathetic, and you know it takes a lot more courage to take blows then to deliver them.
It takes a lot more courage to wake up, and not shut your eyes to the cruelty and bitterness of this world, to stand up and work to do something about it, even when it's so overwhelming.
i dont care what you say, you arent going to stop humans from doing something they have always done.
what have you done for wildlife lately? i know for a fact these animals mean more to me than you will ever know.
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ChiefGreenLeaf

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,596
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: Meepp]
#7574189 - 10/29/07 07:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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This thread has really upet me. People are so dumb too. I think we should live like the Native Americans...they held their prey in the highest respect. There is no excuse for the crulety however.
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Mitchnast
Toadmonger



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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: MOTH]
#7576769 - 10/30/07 01:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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that first video is them killing and skinning tanukis  alot of people think tanuki are raccoons, but they are in fact wild dogs.
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JunkFood
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: Mitchnast]
#7576780 - 10/30/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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They're not killing them, they're just skinning them.
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Mitchnast
Toadmonger



Registered: 10/27/99
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: JunkFood]
#7576859 - 10/30/07 02:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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well, thats Russians for ya. where do you think those fuzzy hats come from?
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Adom
Totally Nude


Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 10,877
Loc: Way Up North
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Re: Animal Cruelty -- I made a youtube video about the fur industry [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
#7577459 - 10/30/07 04:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChiefGreenLeaf said: This thread has really upet me. People are so dumb too. I think we should live like the Native Americans...they held their prey in the highest respect. There is no excuse for the crulety however.
BULLSHIT, what about cliff drives?
I've been on several sioux, lakota or what ever the fuck else they were called sights and they had lots of mass kills with bones they hadn't marrowed out. I bet all those broken bones, torn muscles and stretched muscles felt real good, real respectable way to treat bison. Drive em' off a cliff and cut what you need off.
I love native american culture and I'm fascinated by it. I know several areas they populated and even know a few trade routes, they were not some enlightened culture, they were closer to brutal.
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