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Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles
    #7528018 -
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Hello,

Part of my role as a study coordinator for the Cancer Anxiety Trial with Psilocybin at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center in Los Angeles is finding participants who have advanced cancer and want to try this novel approach with a psychedelic.

The FDA has approved treatment for twelve people in this phase of the study, and we have room for one more. Recruitment has been slow because most oncologists are far too conservative to refer their patients to us. Word of mouth has been our best option. I've posted to all of the usual cancer sites, but I thought you might have some suggestions for spreading the word in this forum.

For more general information about the study, you can consut: www.canceranxietystudy.org , and I've attached a flyer. (Please be aware that participation requires two 1-night stays at a hospital in LA about three weeks apart. We make the room as inviting and condusive to a good journey as possible!)

Thank you for any leads or suggestions you can provide.

Kind Regards,
Alicia Danforth
Study Coordinator
(310) 222-3175

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Ythan]
    #7528049 -

thank god for people like you Alicia Danforth, my best wishes for all the people who will use this suntances, let the light be in their ways , my best vibration to you all.


--------------------

cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa  al lado se puede sentir  que valio  la pena  haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se  convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Ythan]
    #7528058 -

pretty cool ythan....pretty cool. :sun:


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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Ythan]
    #7528065 -

its to bad that it takes something as horrible as cancer to open peoples eyes to the magic of mushrooms.on a side note,I would love to get paid by the government to grow shrooms


--------------------
"There is a world beyond ours, a world that is far away, nearby, and invisible. And there it is where God lives, where the dead live, the spirits and the saints, a world where everything has already happened and everything is known. That world talks. It has a language of its own. I report what it says. The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me. When I return from the trip that I have taken with them, I tell what they have told me and what they have shown me."

The Mazatec Wise Woman, Maria Sabina (1894-1985)

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: JazzCatCF]
    #7528090 -

what are you talking about? cancer is awesome, it allows you to touch a few grams of shrooms without going to jail for life and secondly they aren't paying anyone to grow shrooms.


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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7528134 -

Exactly; they posted this on the shroomery for a reason :wink:


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution :grin:

Open Source. Freedom.  GNU/Linux

Addicting is not a word.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Cepheus]
    #7528187 -

I think its hillarious that this got approved, yet you can't get a trial going w/ marijuana preperations (even ones approved elsewhere)

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: johnm214]
    #7528414 -

You people joking abou cancer have no fucking clue how bad, terrible, and painful cancer is.

I would know considering I had lung cancer when I was 6 to 7 years old, and was in pain pretty much every day. So please, grow up, as I feel it is inappropriate to joke about this horrible disease...


--------------------
"In god we trust..."


-I guess we're screwed.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7528433 -

I am deeply sorry about what happened to you and happy that you got well.
But do you think that it's possible not to transform this discussion into a drama?
This is a very interesting subject so let's focus on it!  :thanx:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7528443 -

I agree; no need to dramatize this. I just get pissed when ppl talk about it in a comical fashion...

Anyways, this looks to be an interesting study. It also might just open the door to more research with mushrooms


--------------------
"In god we trust..."


-I guess we're screwed.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7528458 -

ThePyschonaut52 said:
So please, grow up, as I feel it is inappropriate to joke about this horrible disease...



--------------------
:peyotespectrum:    :sanpedro: :rainbowdrink: :tripping:

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7528459 -

MushroomTrip said:
I am deeply sorry about what happened to you and happy that you got well.
But do you think that it's possible not to transform this discussion into a drama?
This is a very interesting subject so let's focus on it!  :thanx:


:thumbup:

imm just wondering why it is so difficult to find someone in LA with cancer that wouldnt mind taking some shrooms?
I would understand the difficulty if it was in wyoming or something.

hell, If I had cancer, I would fly out there on my own dime just to be a part of it.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7528548 -

My grandfather has cancer in his bone marrow, is in almost constant pain, and has anywhere from a year to 5 years to live. But one of the things my family has learned is that humor makes it alot easier to deal with. My grandfather jokes about it more than anyone. Laughing about something painful (physically or emotionally) isn't always a bad thing. I know it's helped me through a good amount of rough spots.

But anyways, that is a pretty interesting study. I'd like to see what conclusions they come up with.


--------------------
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music.


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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: RipVanWinkle]
    #7528588 -

Maybe the results will help lead the way for a study involving cluster headaches.


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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: mushbaby]
    #7528601 -

I think it's on it's way:

http://www.maps.org/research/cluster/psilo-lsd/


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: RipVanWinkle]
    #7528621 -

RipVanWinkle said:
My grandfather has cancer in his bone marrow, is in almost constant pain, and has anywhere from a year to 5 years to live. But one of the things my family has learned is that humor makes it alot easier to deal with. My grandfather jokes about it more than anyone. Laughing about something painful (physically or emotionally) isn't always a bad thing. I know it's helped me through a good amount of rough spots.

But anyways, that is a pretty interesting study. I'd like to see what conclusions they come up with.


Here's a link your grandfather may have an interest in:
studies showed that LSD was able to relieve severe pain

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Booby]
    #7528675 -

Thanks for the link MT.  Interesting read.  :thumbup:


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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: cactu]
    #7528836 -

cactu said:
thank god for people like you Alicia Danforth, my best wishes for all the people who will use this suntances, let the light be in their ways , my best vibration to you all.


qft

ive had my most guttural deep belly laughs on mushrooms i couldnt think of a better application for release from anxiety from a terminal disease


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Edited by sketchydelux (10/17/07 06:35 PM)

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Ythan]
    #7528934 -

I read about this study about 2 years ago on MAPS website. I'm so glad that it's finally happening :thumbup:

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: mushbaby]
    #7528968 -

mushbaby said:
Maybe the results will help lead the way for a study involving cluster headaches.


Phred is our resident expert on the subject here, if anyone wanted more info I'm sure he's the guy to talk to.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Thor]
    #7528997 -

Thanks Thor.


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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: mushbaby]
    #7529213 -

mushbaby said:
Maybe the results will help lead the way for a study involving cluster headaches.


I'm sorry, but I think that prescribing shrooms are a bit of an overkill for a cluster headache. Think about it, either the dose will be insanely low, or it will be insanely expensive. It might become legal for a little while, and OH-DMT would be moved to schedule II, but either of the following would happen, and -OH-DMT would back in schedule 1.
1.) Everybody suddenly starts to get cluster headaches. Doctors believe them, and prescribe them to people. Three days later, people try to refill, pharmacists are like lol wut, and it's schedule 1 again.
2.) Pharmaceutical competitors find a new, dare I say "safer" different medication, and govt bans -OH-DMT.

Back on the topic of giving OH-DMT to cancer patients, if this had been 15years ago, you'd damn well bet my grandpa would be on the next plan to LA.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Pooter]
    #7529273 -

The research does not limit itself only to what it officially is about, but it also proves latent effects. Through which more people will become aware that there are low psychical and mental health risks when it comes to consuming mushrooms. As opposed to the propaganda that's taking place right now. :wink:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Thor]
    #7529408 -

This is good news. I dont think maps has anything to do with this one so it's good to see that there is research being conducted outside of their organizational sponsorship. I can't say enough in support of the research. There are soo many natural cures we overlook or just don't know about.


--------------------

Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!




I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #7529594 -

FurrowedBrow said:
There are soo many natural cures we overlook or just don't know about.



I know someday they will find a cure for Cancer from some mushroom or some plant.


It's too late for my Mother...

but maybe it won't be too late for some of yours!~


much :heart:





--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!

Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.


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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Roadkill]
    #7530218 -

I agree with you roadkill. About 25% of our medicines come from plants, most of which are found in the rainforest...I think

Sorry to hear about your mother btw


--------------------
"In god we trust..."


-I guess we're screwed.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7530956 -

i think its more like 75% or more of our medicines come from plants.
and even the truly synthetic drugs have their origins, at least in theory, from plants.

but who knows...

(kinda a pun, since W.H.O. is the one that proposed the above estimate.)


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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: dysphoria]
    #7530970 -

actually, i misread the statistic =)

25-40% of drugs are derived from plants.
75-85% of the population uses plants as medicine.

so yea, you're right psychonaut.


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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #7531447 -

I read in High Times about a study w/ Psilocybin, and all of the participants ranked their trip as one of the most important experiences of their life.


--------------------
One Love True Indeed.  Have Good Trips.  Mike/sunshine's mom.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: sunshine]
    #7532395 -

Sorry for the long post, but I can't link this. Here's a description of a psilocybin study and 'mystical' experiences from Johns Hopkins:

"Using unusually rigorous scientific conditions and measures, Johns Hopkins researchers have shown that the active agent in "sacred mushrooms" can induce mystical/spiritual experiences descriptively identical to spontaneous ones people have reported for centuries and can apparently prompt positive changes in behavior and attitude that last a minimum of several months.

.

Cited as "landmark" in the commentary by former National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) director, Charles Schuster, the research marks a new systematic approach to studying certain hallucinogenic compounds that, in the 1950s, showed signs of therapeutic potential or value in research into the nature of consciousness and sensory perception. "Human consciousness...is a function of the ebb and flow of neural impulses in various regions of the brain-the very substrate that drugs such as psilocybin act upon," Schuster said. "Understanding what mediates these effects is clearly within the realm of neuroscience and deserves investigation."

"A vast gap exists between what we know of these drugs-mostly from descriptive anthropology-and what we believe we can understand using modern clinical pharmacology techniques," said study leader Roland Griffiths, PhD, a professor with Hopkins' departments of Neuroscience and Psychiatry and Behavioral Biology. "That gap is large because, as a reaction to the excesses of the 1960s, human research with hallucinogens has been basically frozen in time these last forty years."

All of the study's authors caution about substantial risks of taking psilocybin under conditions not appropriately supervised.

"Even in this study, where we greatly controlled conditions to minimize adverse effects, about a third of subjects reported significant fear, with some also reporting transient feelings of paranoia," said Griffiths. "Under unmonitored conditions, it's not hard to imagine those emotions escalating to panic and dangerous behavior."

The researchers' message isn't just that psilocybin can produce mystical experiences. "I had a healthy skepticism going into this," said Griffiths, "and that finding alone was a surprise." But, as important, he said, "is that, under very defined conditions, with careful preparation, you can safely and fairly reliably occasion what's called a primary mystical experience that may lead to positive changes in a person. It's an early step in what we hope will be a large body of scientific work that will ultimately help people."

The authors acknowledge the unusual nature of the work, treading, as it does, a fine line between neuroscience and areas most would consider outside science's realm. "But establishing the basic science here is necessary," said Griffiths, "to take advantage of the possible benefits psilocybin can bring to our understanding of how thought, emotion, and ultimately behavior are grounded in biology."

In the study, more than 60% of subjects described the effects of psilocybin in ways that met criteria for a "full mystical experience" as measured by established psychological scales. One third said the experience was the single most spiritually significant of their lifetimes; and more than two-thirds rated it among their five most meaningful and spiritually significant. Griffiths said subjects liken it to the importance of the birth of their first child or the death of a parent.

Two months later, 79% of subjects reported moderately or greatly increased well-being or life satisfaction compared with those given a placebo at the same test session. A majority said their mood, attitudes and behaviors had changed for the better. Structured interviews with family members, friends and co-workers generally confirmed the subjects' remarks. Results of a year-long followup are being readied for publication.

Psychological tests and subjects' own reports showed no harm to study participants, though some admitted extreme anxiety or other unpleasant effects in the hours following the psilocybin capsule. The drug has not been observed to be addictive or physically toxic in animal studies or human populations. "In this regard," said Griffiths, a psychopharmacologist, "it contrasts with MDMA (ecstasy), amphetamines or alcohol."

The study isn't the first with psilocybin, the researchers say, though some of the earlier ones, done elsewhere, had notably less rigorous design, were less thorough in measuring outcomes or lacked longer-term follow-up.

In the present work, 36 healthy, well-educated volunteers - most of them middle-aged-with no family history of psychosis or bipolar disorder - were selected. All had active spiritual practices. "We thought a familiarity with spiritual practice would give them a framework for interpreting their experiences and that they'd be less likely to be confused or troubled by them," Griffiths said. All gave informed consent to the study approved by Hopkins' institutional review board.

Each of thirty of the subjects attended two separate 8-hour drug sessions, at two month intervals. On one they received psilocybin, on another, methylphenidate (Ritalin), the active placebo.

Each subject met several times, before drug sessions began, with a reassuring "monitor," a medical professional experienced in observing drug study participants. Monitors stayed with them during the capsule-taking sessions.

The researchers countered "expectancy" by having both monitors and subjects "blinded" to what substance would be given. For ethical reasons, subjects were told about hallucinogens' possible effects, but also learned they could, instead, get other substances-weak or strong-that might change perception or consciousness.

Most important, a third "red herring" group of six subjects had two blinded placebo sessions, then were told they'd receive psilocybin at a third. This tactic-questionnaires later verified-kept participants and monitors in the dark at the first two sessions about each capsule's contents.

As for where the work could lead, the team is planning a trial of patients suffering from advanced cancer-related depression or anxiety, following up suggestive research several decades ago. They're also designing studies to test a role for psilocybin in treating drug dependence.

This article was prepared by Science Letter editors from staff and other reports. Copyright 2007, Science Letter via NewsRx.com."


--------------------
Always
Be
Closing

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7532436 -

This is impressive work.

I would love to write about this and possibly get an interview for the magazine.

Please contact me if your interested.
info@shroomtalk.com

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7532774 -

ThePyschonaut52 said:
You people joking abou cancer have no fucking clue how bad, terrible, and painful cancer is.

I would know considering I had lung cancer when I was 6 to 7 years old, and was in pain pretty much every day. So please, grow up, as I infeel it is inappropriate to joke about this horrible disease...


Nothing is too horrible to joke about. Joking is what relieves anxiety about difficult things for many people. If you don't like the jokes then you have the ability to ignore them. However what I think is inappropriate is someone telling others how they should behave as far as expressing themselves goes. I'm sorry you suffered, I really am, but someone joking about it does not make the physical suffering worse and emotionally we all have free will as to how we feel about things others may say.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Icelander]
    #7532808 -

hey, are there any more details we can get about this?

like, will they really be ingesting mushrooms? or will it be an IM or IV sort of thing?
what is the setting going to be? what are the safety measures if someone trips out too hard?
what are the dosages going to be?
are you able to disclose rough facts about the group? like age? are they terminal? sex?

from my limited knowledge from reading The Spirit Molecule, i was under the assumption that in order to do research/testing on human patients, the drug had to be of a certain quality or grade.... how would they go about that with psilocybin?
is there going to be a placebo group? if so, is it going to be double-blind?

I are wanting more details.... gimme.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7533502 -

I would have to presume the psilocybin will be synthesized, orally ingested. That's generally the procedure used; it would be of effectively 100% purity.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Pooter]
    #7533734 -

Quote:
I'm sorry, but I think that prescribing shrooms are a bit of an overkill for a cluster headache. Think about it, either the dose will be insanely low, or it will be insanely expensive


Considering that cluster headache suffers are getting great results from psilocybin where other treatments fail, I think its the furthest from overkill imaginable. Considering the high suicide rate of people suffering from cluster headaches which are often described as excruciating pain; I would think considering the pain these people have to endure the hope psilocybin gives them is hugely important.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7533797 -

ThePyschonaut52 said:
You people joking abou cancer have no fucking clue how bad, terrible, and painful cancer is.

I would know considering I had lung cancer when I was 6 to 7 years old, and was in pain pretty much every day. So please, grow up, as I feel it is inappropriate to joke about this horrible disease...


I commiserate, but to rule cancer off the funny list is patently unfair. People die, and it is most frequently an excruciating and prolonged affair. If you hold true to your professed virtues, the Darwin Awards are now off limits, along with every other "it's funny because it's terrible" comment that involves someone's death. Cancer does not have a monopoly on pain. Besides, "tumor" is a very funny word describing a very deadly thing; isn't it contrast--such as between terrible and silly, or expected and unexpected--that defines humor, anyway?

To the point, though, I am surprised and a little bit disappointed that the subject post is contacting obviously-partisan groups for subjects. That's bad science, and compromising the study is going to compromise its impact. My personal experiences tell me that this sort of research--not just with terminal illness, but with many forms of anxiety--has great potential. Hallucinogens can, with guidance, help an individual to reorganize their entire world-view in an almost uniformly positive way (2012 prophecies notwithstanding). However, we don't have that kind of guidance yet. If hallucinogens are going to be implemented as a treatment for any psychiatric condition, there are going to need to be psychiatrists specially trained in their use.

In other words, popping an eighth of shrooms twice a month isn't going to work like an SSRI, or any other mood-altering substance. Some people will find a way to improve their state through the use of hallucinogens without help, surely, but for this to be a widely-applicable treatment we would really require a more balanced approach to pharmacology. Maybe one day.


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FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS

Edited by figgusfiddus (10/19/07 12:59 AM)

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7533804 -

CaptainLinger said:
I would have to presume the psilocybin will be synthesized, orally ingested. That's generally the procedure used; it would be of effectively 100% purity.


I'm not sure if that's true, especially with frontier pharmaceuticals. I don't personally know whether they've actually spliced yeast DNA together to pump out psilocybin, or however they do these things. I would make an uneducated guess that the federal government probably cultivates cubensis on some limited scale. Oh, and I do remember that it was orally ingested in that one episode of House. I'm not sure that counts as a veritable source, though.

Say, if that yeast synthesis method is how they do it, what do you think a sample of that yeast would do to ruin/reinvent our hobby? :bongroll:


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FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS

Edited by figgusfiddus (10/19/07 01:06 AM)

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: scout24]
    #7533815 -

scout24 said:
Sorry for the long post, but I can't link this. Here's a description of a psilocybin study and 'mystical' experiences from Johns Hopkins:....



I've read this, and I really just want to know what doses they used in the study. I guess the source report is probably available through Hopkins itself, could probably get it via an online journal uh, thingy through any given university.

As far as I can tell, by the way, the original article here is from Science Letter (newsrx.com), a $2295.00/yr weekly publication. Aye aye aye.


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FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7534332 -

Quote:
Johns Hopkins researchers have shown that the active agent in "sacred mushrooms" can induce mystical/spiritual experiences descriptively identical to spontaneous ones people have reported for centuries and can apparently prompt positive changes in behavior and attitude that last a minimum of several months.

Reached for comment, the Shroomery replied:  "No shit"


:snub:

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: johnm214]
    #7534587 -

For a test like this you would not be eating actual mushrooms, im positive of that. Theres too much variation in dosages, you would be consuming psilocybin capsules like Leary used at harvard.

As for cluster headaches, psychedelics have been proven to brake cycles and prevent the headaches. Here is a video of what a cluster headache is like for those who think its silly to treat them with lsd or psilocybin:Cluster Headache

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: opensaysme]
    #7534635 -

It is more than likely synthesized psilocybin.

As far as the study population is concerned, it is much easier to pass a study through institutional review if you are administereing drug to "users".

All other parameters are up to the investigators. The experimental design will depend upon the outcome measures they are looking at. In this case, it appears to be standard psychiatric assessments of depression and anxiety.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: badchad]
    #7535904 -

wouldnt it be easier just to synthesize psilocin? seems like that would cut down on the variable of how quick the individuals dephosphorylate the psilocybin.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7536228 -

Yes.

More importantly (as someone mentioned earlier) it would allow standardized doing.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: badchad]
    #7536280 -

and we all know how important standardized doing it is.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7536395 -

STandardized dosing is very important in clinical trials. Especially when you are assessing largely subjective measures and using psychoactive substances.

It also facilitates the design of a placebo control.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: badchad]
    #7539200 -

What dose do you you think would be best for the clinical trials? I guess it would have to vary from person to person based on the sensitivety of the test subject. Right?


--------------------
"In god we trust..."


-I guess we're screwed.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7539222 -

I don't think so because if the doses would differ, the research wouldn't have a conclusive answer.
Something has to remain the constant, and the psychedelic experience itself always varies in intensity from person to person.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7539242 -

True.


--------------------
"In god we trust..."


-I guess we're screwed.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7539280 -

If i had to guess i would say that they would prob experiment with 2-3 different dosage levels, of course each person getting the same amount at each level. Probably a placebo once, a low dose once, and a high dose once; possibly with a moderate dose thrown in for good measure. My guess is the highest dose would go no more than the equivalent amount of psilocybin in around 3.5-4g cubes

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Thor]
    #7542402 -

Phred sure is, as I have had some PMs between the two of us regarding this. I can tell you from my personal experience, that mushies help me in an incalculable way, when it comes to squashing a severe migraine. I have the highest percentage of disability from the Department of Veteran Affairs due to migraines.


My friend of a friend does cultivate mushrooms for this purpose;since all the preventive medications I have taken: Imitex, Replax,Midrin,Zomig, Lithium...ETC....dont give me relief most of the time (at which I then proceed to puke in a bag)The only option at this point, is to kill the migraine by taking prescribed Percocet, which totally make it impossible for me to work. I find it quite trivial that Docs will prescribe me enough painkillers (deriving from opium, a plant) to take down a rhino , yet there are no legal medications coming from the sacred mushroom.


I hope that one day psilocybin in my possession, will not make me a criminal for trying to heal myself. Not to dramatize, but this aliment does make people lives a living HELL


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7549772 -

As for the deeeeeetails....

This is the coordinator of the trial in LA chiming in with a few bits of information that may be of interest. In no particular order:

- We are using synthesized psilocybin. I'll have to get back to you regarding the question of why we don't simply synthesize psilocin instead.
- For our trial, we're dosing at .2mg/kg body weight. The Hopkins trial used a higher dose.
- We are using a mild/moderate dose for several reasons. Namely, we aim to induce an analytical experience instead of a "knock your socks off" mystical dose due to the psychotherapeutic nature of the work.
- I arrive prior to the participant's admission to decorate the room and make it as "unhospitalish" as possible. (I decorate the room the same way each time to minimize variability.)
- Everyone who participates has one active session and one placebo session. Both are blinded. (Yes, we usually have a good idea which was which, but we don't know for sure.) We've spent endless hours contemplating how to address the placebo issue in psychedelic trials. The Hopkins study used Ritalin. We use niacin. I am beginning to think that the whole notion is ridiculous. People tend to know when they are in an altered state of consciousness. I think the analogy with trials looking at the effects of exercise is applicable. You can't have a true control group in that case; people know if they are exercising or not. We can't use another antianxiolytic because then we wouldn't know which substance influenced the respondents' follow-up data. I like this debate, so I'm curious what others think. (They did see some interesting placebo effects on the Hopkins trial.)
- Each participant serves as his or her own control because random selection to a group that received only a placebo would be unethical in a trial for people who have advanced cancer.
- I agree wholeheartedly with the criticism that it's poor science to be contacting obviously-partisan groups. My intention by posting here was to raise awareness of the trial in general. I wasn't really expecting to find participants in this forum... but you never know where a lead will pop up. This small pilot is primarily a safety and feasibility study. Our population isn't large enough to tell us much about efficacy. Subsequent larger phases will adhere to stricter scientific rigor when it comes to recruiting. It has been far more difficult to find participants than we'd ever imagined. If there's interest in this topic, I'll be happy to go into more detail in future posts.
- We are not a MAPS-funded trial. The non-profit Heffter Research Institute is our sponsor. (www.heffter.org)

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Dan4th]
    #7550155 -

Best wishes to you and to your study (and to the participants, who will undoubtably be back looking for another go at it!).


--------------------



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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: suzie_girl]
    #7550371 -

Yes, undoubtedly! One of the hardest aspects of working on this trial is not being able to provide booster sessions, especially when participants express a desire to have another go at it. We are discussing the possibility of adding booster sessions to future protocols.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Dan4th]
    #7551920 -

The new LSD study in Switzerland uses a low dose (20ug?) of LSD as the active placebo. That seemed to be the best placebo approach I've heard of.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Freedom]
    #7553550 -

I really don't suppose finding participants for this "survey" is really much of a problem.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7556432 -

So, I checked in with our principal investigator regarding the psilocin (a metabolite of psilocybin) question. The reason we are working with psilocybin is because we could get FDA approval to do so. In order to work with human subjects, especially a population with advanced-cancer, animal studies are generally a required prerequisite. There have been animal studies and prior trials with humans for psilocybin, so that determined the choice of which substance to synthesize. Over time, it may be possible to do research with psilocin as well.

Next question? :wink:

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Dan4th]
    #7557852 -

even if you get the best results you could wish for, what will this study accomplish?

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7559218 -

Per my earlier post, this is primarily a safety and feasibility pilot. Several years ago when the team was drafting the protocol, they had an uphill battle to fight to get permission to work with a Schedule I substance. Therefore, baby steps were in order. By starting small, we could establish that the treatment model is feasible and safe in order to open more possibilities for future research.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Dan4th]
    #7559645 -

fair enough.

the other side of the coin: if something goes wrong, is it possible that it could be a setback for all future psilocybin studies?

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7559812 -

The team was exceptionally mindful of safety protocols from the start for that very reason. To give you an example, we require a recent MRI of the brain to rule out brain or CNS metastases. We take blood pressure and temperature measurements every hour during the treatment sessions, too. You might also be interested to learn that we're not seeing the typical nausea and GI effects that can result from mushroom ingestion. Participants have reported gentle physical experiences so far with the pure psilocybin. As for the potential for a "freak out" during or following treatment, we are unlikely to see that outcome with the mild/moderate dose we're providing -- even among those who have no prior psychedelic experiences. For more info on the inclusion/exclusion criteria, you can check here: www.canceranxietystudy.org. Believe me, we're the last ones who would want anything to go wrong. With only one more participant to go and no adverse events related to treatment to report, we in good shape at this point. Rest assured, we take risk mitigation seriously.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Dan4th]
    #7560310 -

wow this is awesome the FDA approved this study. 12 people is a start...hopefully they will expand it to more people if they find it to be effective against cancer.


--------------------
MushroomGeeks.com

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Dan4th]
    #7561074 -

Dan4th said:
The team was exceptionally mindful of safety protocols from the start for that very reason. To give you an example, we require a recent MRI of the brain to rule out brain or CNS metastases. We take blood pressure and temperature measurements every hour during the treatment sessions, too. You might also be interested to learn that we're not seeing the typical nausea and GI effects that can result from mushroom ingestion. Participants have reported gentle physical experiences so far with the pure psilocybin. As for the potential for a "freak out" during or following treatment, we are unlikely to see that outcome with the mild/moderate dose we're providing -- even among those who have no prior psychedelic experiences. For more info on the inclusion/exclusion criteria, you can check here: www.canceranxietystudy.org. Believe me, we're the last ones who would want anything to go wrong. With only one more participant to go and no adverse events related to treatment to report, we in good shape at this point. Rest assured, we take risk mitigation seriously.


awesome. I hope I didnt come off as being prickish. i was just interested in the entire process.

so, maybe this will be my last question: Do you think the results you have gotten so far will allow for your team to do further studies in the realm of psilocybin? maybe a larger test group?

and are you guys at all interested in upping the dose? or is the study mainly focusing on small doses?

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7567557 -

Hi Kush,

It's important to keep in mind that we are treating existential anxiety related to advanced illness. This is a psychiatric study. We are not treating cancer. I have to be exceptionally clear with all participants that we are not attempting to treat cancer with psilocybin. Some people have experienced an improvement in their perceptions of pain, and one participant regained some significant functioning shortly after a treatment session that had been lost due to extensive surgery and radiation. However, we make no claims about treating physical illness. That being said, many participants are honest about their desires to engage mind-body healing mechanisms, but they know they are participating in an experimental treatment for anxiety and not cancer. (I think I've repeated that point enough!)

Thanks for the encouraging comment!

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Dan4th]
    #7567571 -

I appreciate your interest, and a healthy challenge now and then simply helps us refine our approach.

As for your questions, we are currently in the planning stages for the next protocol with a larger group at a higher dose. As I mentioned earlier, we are considering adding the option of booster sessions, too.

We're firm believers that we'll get farther faster taking well considered baby steps. However, the success of the Hopkins trial has amounted to a big leap forward for us too. They saw good results in healthy volunteers at higher doses.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Dan4th]
    #7571315 -

If the gov't wanted to cure cancer they would have. They wont for the simple fact they will lose billions of dollars a year and million will be without jobs.


--------------------
MY TRADE LIST!!!

FULLY AUTOMATIC!! 12-Pot Multi Grow Hydroponic System for Trade.


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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #7571378 -

Do you really believe that?

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: opensaysme]
    #7574262 -

The world's a lot more corrupt than most people realize. When you learn about the crap the U.S. government has done stuff like that doesn't seem to far fetched. It's very complicated.

This study will almost certainly bring positive results, but with the insane corruption I'm not sure it'll do much good.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Thor]
    #7576156 -

Ive heard of Psilocybin mushrooms being used to help cluster headaches.


--------------------
I believe that if people would learn to use LSD's vision-inducing capability more wisely, under suitable conditions, in medical practice and in conjunction with meditation, then in the future this problem child could become a wonderchild. - HOFFMAN

My Print/Syringe Trade List

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: ThePyschonaut52]
    #7590163 -

ThePyschonaut52 said:
So please, grow up, as I feel it is inappropriate to joke about this horrible disease...


Than maybe you should change your sig so that it doesn't poke fun at the retarded you fucking hypocrite.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: jpuff]
    #7590806 -

I dont think that the government is keeping the cure for cancer a secret. I dont trust the government at all, but I really doubt that they are keeping this a secret. Even if they were, what about the rest of the countries in the world, some with even far better medical technology. Do you think that their governments are also as insane as ours?

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Icelander]
    #7593006 -

I agree with you in general about humour potentially relieving pain and anxiety. Yet ThePyschonaut52 percieved the comments as flippent, or disrespectful in some way, I guess. I know that some humour can be deliberately cruel (getting pleasure from inflicting pain). I guess I'm thinking that he has the right to vent against his perceived disrespectful behaviour just as much as you have the right to remind that ideally nothing is to horrible to joke about. Maybe it is true that timing is everything.


--------------------
Everything I post (or have posted) on this website is fictional, even this sentence.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: newlife]
    #7597319 -

newlife said:
Do you think that their governments are also as insane as ours?


All governments are as insane as each other - money gets involved and the human condition of greed takes hold of the decisions - it seems inevitable.

Though with that, if a government did actually have a cure for cancer just think of the potential money that could be made from it - they would release it from a profiteering point of view surely...

To the scientists doing this study - thanks a million, this is fantastic news and hopefully one small step starting many more in the right direction.... :thumbup:


--------------------
Some Travel Photos     -    The Story of the Kangaroo Poo Cube     -    Bucketing    -    Xmas KISS

Himalayan Mushroom Medicine    -    Tropical Visions    -    Super Volcano Cubensis  -    Myanmar Magic    -    Cambodian Copes

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: Dan4th]
    #7617700 -

*Yawn*

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: 0xYg3n]
    #7620779 -

Im Writing about this topic (Psychedelic therapy / cancer) as a college research paper. Love the topic, its so interesting how much pain has to do with the mind. And also how humbling the experience is, so much so that it helps people accept their death.


--------------------
"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: freezepooter]
    #7624422 -

We're talking about medical corporations, not governments. These corporations are global, so yes, there could be the possibility of a cure being withheld without anyone knowing because it would not generate as much profit as treatments. Remember, a corporations first responsibility is to make money for its owners and shareholders. However, saying something like that is just pure speculation because there's no way to know for sure.

Back on track, my mother has non-hodgkin's lymphoma. She is very upset about it. Are you still looking for volunteers, I would like her to try this; I know how much psilocybin can help with psychological problems.

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: u4ea]
    #7645510 -

Hello u4ea - I am sorry to learn of your mother's illness. We have a spot for one more volunteer. You can learn more about the inclusion/exclusion criteria by visting our Web site at: www.canceranxietystudy.org . If you think your mother would be interested in starting the screening process, you can contact our office using the info on the Web site. Bright Blessings, A

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Re: Clinical Trial with Psilocybin in Los Angeles [Re: freezepooter]
    #7646717 -

freezepooter said:
Im Writing about this topic (Psychedelic therapy / cancer) as a college research paper. Love the topic, its so interesting how much pain has to do with the mind. And also how humbling the experience is, so much so that it helps people accept their death.


I suppose at that point anything would help, but hey I love my mushrooms too.  :getstoned:

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