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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Chakras
    #7501455 -

Just curious how many people on this board are into chakras.
Chakras
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from 10/09/07 12:07 PM until the end of time

View the results of this poll



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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Chakras [Re: Rahz]
    #7503007 -

on a couple occassions when I was with a special lady I felt my entire chest was bursting with energy, and tingling all over, my breathing also got really deep and heavy and all I felt was pure love for her... I suppose that was my heart chakra opening up. For those interested, check out Alex Grey and his Sacred Mirrors book / paintings... he beautifully depicts chakra in his art.

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Re: Chakras [Re: Rahz]
    #7503234 -

So here's a question. It's been a topic in some form or another several times lately, on another message board I play on.

The Question: What are the differences and/or similarities between chakra meditation and vipasanna (awareness meditation)? This is a deep question, so any thoughtful answers are appreciated. This is something I want to figure out. On a surface level, the answer is obviously that they are different, but as I examine the gray area, it becomes so large that I can no longer see them separately.

And it's not just the message board, it's me. When I first learned what "true" or "pure" meditation was, there was a train of thought that began to have a negative view of the use of will during chakra meditation, not a belief, but a consideration. OTOH, another train of thought suggests that being a physical entity presupposes the use of will on some level or another, and the thought that any focus of will during meditation is a fallacy, is false.

The distinction here is that awareness is not an act of will, and that everything else is, whether done consciously or sub-consciously.

My answer. And keep in mind I'm not enlightened so I'm just guessing in part.

The ideal state of vipasanna is a state no mind. What this means is that there is no focal point of mind, there is only formless awareness with no center. ANYTHING else is a focus of some sort, which begets the creation of form, a center, a reference point. One angle is that all mechanisms of willful thought have dropped below the level of consciousness. It is this training of "no mind" during vipasanna that allows a person to change.

The problem is that people can practice zen for years and years, chasing perfection. Very few people become zen masters, and very few are those who become enlightened. I'm not suggesting that vipasanna is useless, but it seems to be a passive practice.

OTOH, chakra meditation can be as active as the meditator wishes, so long as the meditator is willing. At times, this can be bad, almost as if it could be abusive, trying to kill a beast that won't die. At other times, it's empowering and there is almost "too much light" (which is a good thing). But there is another side to chakra meditation that could be considered more pure. It's about allowing. It could almost be referred to as focused vipasanna, even though the phrase is a paradox.

I'm beginning to see that there are two distinct types of chakra meditation. As I look back, I can see that I've utilized both. Neither are bad in any way, but there is the possibility of being stuck trying to idealize one mode over the other. In either case, a person can chase a previous experience. When something is successful, there is a tendency to follow the same footsteps. The main fault of chakra meditation is to fail to know when to "switch gears".

Passive chakra meditation is feminine. Instead of forcing the movement of energy, there is an asking. The asking is the only form of will used, and is a centering of awareness on the chakras. It's accepting, and compassionate, kind and forgiving, hopeful and patient.

Active chakra meditation is masculine. Instead of asking, the movement of energy is created by force of will. Kundalini is brought forth on demand, and chakras are "spun". Things happen, changes are made.

The thing I'm realizing is that failure to embrace one results in overuse and corruption of the other. This is the way of chakra meditation, playing with polarity. I'm beginning to see that perhaps chakra meditation leads into vipasanna. It's an integration of the masculine and feminine, a balance, that I now seek. The more balanced I become, the less focus there will need to be on chakras, but it takes playing with polarity to get there.

Many people report great success within 2-6 years of chakra meditation. Vipasanna is nice, but it's the kind of thing I would have laughed at before I discovered chakra meditation. It seems like trying to go from A to Z, skipping everything in between. It seems like something that comes after a person has played with the energies of polarity. It seems to defeat the point of having the experience of life, as painful as it may be. If a person idealizes "no mind", does that not presuppose "mind"?

I hope you see what I'm getting at. So what is the difference between chakra meditation and vipasanna? Which would you recommend for beginners? What results have you had?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Chakras [Re: Rahz]
    #7505582 -

I believe I understand your basic question and hope that my answer will address it. I can't say that I am an authority on the subject but I definitely have an interest in the subject matter. I have practiced both types of meditation, breath awareness to a much larger
degree than I have chakra meditation, but find that both are helpful in their own respects.

While I practice breath awareness the whole point of the meditation is to simply let go and follow the breath without adding anything. This is a very useful technique for quieting the mind and cultivating calmness, peace and stillness. This practice spills over naturally into every situation allowing for a more balanced approach. In the balanced respect it is very similar to the chakra meditation technique that I use.

Chakra meditation is different in the respect that instead of being aware of the flow of the breath you are visualizing various objects in order to balance out the energies of the body. I'm going to describe the various chakras in brief form as to explain what my practice consist of, alot of this information has come from various internet sources and books, specifically Kundalini Tantra by Sir Swami Satyananda Saraswati. Its important to remember that science has not found evidence for these to be existent its good to think of them as symbolic of the natural energy and tendencies of the body.

The mooladhara chakra at the perineum is visualized as a golden square, with the thought that it is the foundation of our being. Also this chakra is associated with the element of earth, representing the grosses of forms. Also the elimination process is represented here, solid waste (earth). The fundamental energy of survival is also associated with this chakra.

The second chakra is at the base of the tail bone and is called swadhisthana the symbol is a crescent moon with the tips almost touching. The second chakra is associated with the element water and associated with the reproductive organs. Creativity and stored impressions are the energies of this chakra.

The third chakra is the Manipura chakra which is directly behind the naval. This is the seat of Willpower and achievement, also thought to be an important area for the egoic mechanism. This chakras controls the energy of the body though the digestive system. It is associated with the element fire and the symbol is a downward facing triangle.

Fourth we have the heart chakra called Anahata. Located at the base of the heart or the bottom of the septum. The energy of this chakra is love. The symbol of this chakra is 2 triangles one pointing down and the other pointing up, making a 6 pointed star. The element associated with this chakra is air or wind. The hands are associated with this chakra because its how we show affection and feel things.

For the 5th chakra we come to Vishuddi, located at the base of the throat. This is the center for expression. The element here is space and is represented by a white circle with a gray oval stretching from top to bottom. The vocal cords are associated with this chakra.

The sixth chakra is the Ajna or 3ed eye chakra, the energy here is intuition and higher knowledge. The form here isn't really uniform, I visualize it as light. The mind is associated here.

The seventh is the Sahasara chakra, its represented by a thousand petaled lotus, but is beyond all concepts. This is the center for enlightenment or samadhi. The stillness which is always present.

I hope this explanation of the chakra system and meditation concept is helpful. Like I had said earlier, its a technique to balance out all of the energies of the body and I normally do this after breath awareness. I'm not so sure that the locations are actually in the body or whatever, but I certainly find that just visualizing these different aspects brings me to a greater understanding of the interdependence of the energies of the body. I do believe in the general concept that certain areas are the storehouse for certain energies.

Its a useful technique and sometimes while I am performing yoga I become aware that a specific area of my body is full of energy and when I focus on it a let it take its course, some pretty fantastic spontaneous poses come.

Peace

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Re: Chakras [Re: InnerStillness]
    #7507642 -

Thanks for the post. I'm not sure the question is answered, but it's nice to know someone uses both, together. I guess my big problem (though I hesitate to call it a problem) is that when I practice pure meditation, I can't but help notice the flow of energy, and pay attention to it, which leads back into chakras. At this point in my life, I don't feel like I have much use for vipasanna.

Which is the crux of my pondering. It seems that vipasanna can lead to states of clarity and peace, but I seem to like things a little stronger. I've read that one should temper the emotion in the same way one should temper the egoic though process, but that just doesn't make much sense to me. I know what an over functioning chakra is, and I'm good at keeping things -almost- too strong during meditation. It's very nice, but I do it to learn, to understand by examining more closely. Pushing things too far defeats the purpose, though experiencing the dangers of meditation certainly is a learning experience.

Unless I'm missing something, vipasanna just seems a much more passive practice. Perhaps it's something I will do more often as I get older.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Chakras [Re: Rahz]
    #23022440 -

I really wanna get into them, but after meditation, gym & yoga 5 days a week I don't really have time. If I could add anything to my routine, it would be yoga first, chakras next.

At some point in my life I will explore them deeply however.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Chakras [Re: Rahz]
    #23022475 -

in comparing and contrasting chakkra meditation from vipassana meditation and koan meditation, I find that many of the fine features and distinctions between them, are themselves mental constructs, or thought forms, rather than solid differences.

by reduction, the simplest vipassana, breathing meditation, with or without a body based point of focus/or chakkra, provides the least cluttered access to a mindscape (experience)  accommodating thought forms without being involved in their endless life cycle of arising and passing.

absorption mental states are a good tonic, and chakkra meditation seems to goes most quickly toward that; but the equanimity orientation of vipassana has a very high value, and combines very well with absorption.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Chakras [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23022672 -

Posting to follow, I have too much to type in response. I'm on my tablet, but basically I believe the major difference is vipassana meditation deals with clearing, clearing the mind, clearing the conscious, and being in a place where you as a whole are becoming the most efficient conduit for sensation and thought to pass through without clutching to anything, they simply pass through.
chakra meditation is (for me) creating the same efficiency by focus on the pieces of the conduit(you) that are usually the energetic nodes of concentration and ensuring things flow rather than "collecting/blocking/concentrating " these energies.

He stopped posting but the twitter account my sig is from has some insightful thoughts on this.

I believe our physical construct and design is an energetic antenna of sorts, used to attracts and conduct energy, and in the process of flowing through us, we have the ability to change the shape and conductive properties of this antenna through thongs like meditation, prayer, yoga,  nd the like. I believe meditation and psychedelics can broaden our perception and awareness of these energies as they pass through.

Using electronics as a silicon, and wire analogy of our own energetic construct


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina

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Re: Chakras [Re: nuentoter]
    #23022904 -

rather than clearing, vipassana is more about not adding anything
(nothing extra is put into the mix)


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Chakras [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23023174 -

Yes, I guess my wording wasn't clear, my meaning was more of allowing unobstructed flow, simplifying.


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina

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Re: Chakras [Re: nuentoter]
    #23054366 -

I've sat a vipassana course before. On the 4th day I definitely felt my third eye open. I've occasionally felt a buzz there while on acid, but this was a full on tbrobbing, pulsingating action. I asked the AT about it but you know how they are if you've sat a course "Observe it and move on" OK.

I agree with the above posters idea of the crown chakra, every time I smoke DMT, I close my eyes on the last inhale and the thousand petaled lotus starts to form in my mind's eye, right before I break through.

Lots of Sufism warns about opening the throat and 3rd eyes chakras before the heart chakra. I have never felt anything or meditated on my heart chakra. I want to get into developing them all but I don't know where to start. Crowley was heavily into the practice but he learned from staying in India and North Africa. You can't conceptualize Vipassana from a book so I doubt you can clean much on chakras without a teacher

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Re: Chakras [Re: Govam]
    #23054435 -

From my understanding it is akin to building a new house on an old foundation, there may never really be a problem, but you cannot control the most things and if there were to bee an earthquake (traumatic life experience) then what was built above may crumble.

Having a voice, seeing all as one, and other points based above the heart chakra may falter when when shit hours the fan in life and Anahata (heart chakra) is the balancing calming force required for these moments in life, so you can keep your head about you.


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina

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Re: Chakras [Re: Rahz]
    #23055032 -

I wrote a 222 page doctoral dissertation* on the Tibetan Buddhist chakra model (compared and contrasted with the Hindu Tantric, Chinese Taoist, and Jewish Kabbalistic models of centers) and how it can be used to organize some major Western psychological theories so that they do not appear to contradict one another. I do not need to focus on the loci in my physical body to be aware of their multi-levelled operation.

* A Phenomenological Adaptation of the Tibetan Buddhist Doctrine of Psychic Centers to a Metatheoretical Hierarchy of Human Motivation©, 1983, University Microfilms International, Inc., in partial fulfillment of the completion of a Ph.D. degree at the University of Maryland.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Chakras [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23059418 -

My progression has been as I postulated in the OP. I no longer do chakra meditation unless you count relaxing within the feeling of breathing for 15-20 seconds at a time.

I also see vipissana as "the act of thought without bias" and even "the act of seeing ones bias" since bias is part of things as they are. Chakra meditation has been a good tool in that respect.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Chakras [Re: Rahz]
    #23059506 -

Rahz said:
My progression has been as I postulated in the OP. I no longer do chakra meditation unless you count relaxing within the feeling of breathing for 15-20 seconds at a time.

I also see vipissana as "the act of thought without bias" and even "the act of seeing ones bias" since bias is part of things as they are. Chakra meditation has been a good tool in that respect.


Vipassana is exactly the opposite of Samatha, which is a con-centrating (centering) meditation. For most of my life I focused on a center, only relatively recently have I practiced the expansiveness, decentering meditaton of Vipassana. But classic chakra meditations within a Tantric idiom is about eliciting and directing energies along pathways as in the Buddhist Yogas of Form, or Hindu and Sikh Kundalini Yogas. I was not trained since childhood to elicit the gTummo Inner Fire and it would be fruitless to think I can do it on my own, so I've largely abandoned such illusions.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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