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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: capnkirk]
    #7258021 -

capnkirk said:
Rail_Gun said:
About a month and a half ago I applied for my CHL. I took documentation of completing a certified safety and shooting course, proving I'm proficient in handgun handling. I had an interview with the county sheriff and passed the background check. Now I'm legal to pack heat.



What kind of gun do you have? pics?



I'll be carrying a Kahr P40, a compact .40 caliber pistol. I'm sorry, I tried to attach a pic, but the attachment wouldn't allow a jpg file.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: DepthToTheCore]
    #7258022 -

Also keep in mind that the US is just a violent place and always has been. Going back to the 1800's we had more murders than UK yet gun laws where exactly the same.

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #7258340 -

Try to upload a .jpg where the name is one word and jpg is written in small (not capital) letters. Sometimes uploading is quirky like that.
We like to see what you're packin' :smile:

If I lived in a dangerous area of the world I could see myself owning and concealed carrying a gun too. During most of recorded history many people wore swords, daggers, knives etc for protection, its not like we ran out of villains.


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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: Asante]
    #7258484 -

Yeah i am from Australia. We aren't allowed to carry handguns of any type, in any situation except for law enforcement and certain security.

We definitely don't have assault rifles or anything of the sort. It's kind of laughable to think about it.

Certain people are allowed to possess basic rifles and guns used in sport or hunting. The red tape to get, own and look after one of these is horrendous. A lot of my farmer mates that owned guns sold them to the Govt. during the buyback.

The buyback and ban on firearms occurred in 1996. Thanks to whoever it was that posted this link: http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi066.html you can see there has been a 47% decrease in firearm deaths over the period and a sharp drop straight after 1996.

I know there are tonnes of stats and stories that pro-gun people can bring up in a second, but the fact is here, in Australia, gun control has been one of the most successful and popular policies the govt. has produced.

There aren't any guns on the streets. If you get mugged, it is NEVER with a gun. 'Armed' Robberies are almost always baseball bats, syringes, knives etc. The only bad guys that have guns are the really serious triads, bigger bikie gangs and organised crime. And they don't generally threaten the public with them, just eachother. If someone gets shot and killed here, its on the news. It's newsworthy that a bullet was discharged somewhere.

So the pro-gun debate doesn't really work down here. I understand it's like a serious debate in America and people take it seriously.

But we just find it amazing that there even could be a debate. Like i can't imagine anyone from Aust. reading through this thread and not just being amazed about talk of people owning concealed handguns.


--------------------
:igor: RIP :igor:

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :mushroom2: :shroomer: :mushroom2: :supershroom: :pinkshroom:

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: undergrounder]
    #7258560 -

I'm Dutch, not American :smile:

Quote:
But we just find it amazing that there even could be a debate. Like i can't imagine anyone from Aust. reading through this thread and not just being amazed about talk of people owning concealed handguns.



Well if there's pro's and con's there should be debate.

Many australians are against the virtual ban, don't apply your point of view to the entire continent.

Quote:
If you get mugged, it is NEVER with a gun. 'Armed' Robberies are almost always baseball bats, syringes, knives etc.



More happens than just simple muggings. People may come at you for the purpose of messing you up, or this may happen to someone you happen to be in the same street with.

I'm gay. Gay people get to deal with senseless violence all over the world a lot, in some areas worse than others. Armed gays don't get their heads kicked in. If you're black in the US' deep south where theres still Ku Klux Klan, or if you have to live in a shitty ghetto regardless of race, it's a perfectly legitimate reason to consider arming yourself.

The good guys who got a gun aren't the problem. Quite some time they even prevent crimes by their armed presence. Its the bad guys who got a gun. But if they cant get a gun they take a butcher knife, lead pipe or whatever catches their fancy.

There are some really, really sick people out there.

I'm armed with nothing more than heavy boots and some training, but I can see why people, especially in the USA, would want a firearm by their side to keep them safe.

Just look at the senseless violence you read about in the paper. Most of it couldve been prevented if a bystander who concealed carried had moved in, stopped the crime and made a citizens arrest.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: Asante]
    #7258621 -

I didn't mean to write everyone was for the ban, there are people who are against it.

I only say we can't buy into the debate because we already had ours. And since it has been seen as a very good and popular move by the majority, its hard to see why any other country would want to have a different outcome. Like you read an argument proclaiming "Gun Control can never work" and you just laugh, because here it does.

I don't wholeheartedly agree that its a good thing for 'good' people to be allowed to carry guns, but i can understand the point. Obviously the problem there is that you cannot selectively put guns into the system without them inevitably finding their way to people who shouldn't have them. Especially considering the massive differences in laws between states that the US has.

I can understand you (or any other minority) wanting to have a means to protect yourself if you are constantly targeted by violence. The catch-22 is that you also have to be worried that the person attacking you might now have a gun. A certain freedom of gun laws means that guns are inevitably everywhere. Why play out an arms race? Should a country allow people to carry concealed SMGs to protect from handguns? Should a country allow everyone to carry an assault rifle when SMGs become common place? Just ban guns altogether and the most you have to worry about is a knife. You'd have a harder time banning all guns in the Netherlands and the US than you would down here (It pays to be 1000kms from nowhere and surrounded by water) but the common claim that it's impossible is wrong.


--------------------
:igor: RIP :igor:

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :mushroom2: :shroomer: :mushroom2: :supershroom: :pinkshroom:

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: undergrounder]
    #7258627 -

I think this is the gun Rail_Gun was talking about:



--------------------
:igor: RIP :igor:

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :mushroom2: :shroomer: :mushroom2: :supershroom: :pinkshroom:

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: undergrounder]
    #7258651 -

undergrounder said:
the fact is here, in Australia, gun control has been one of the most successful and popular policies the govt. has produced.

There aren't any guns on the streets. If you get mugged, it is NEVER with a gun. 'Armed' Robberies are almost always baseball bats, syringes, knives etc.
The only bad guys that have guns are the really serious triads, bigger bikie gangs and organised crime.



they took guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, understand that the
link I posted was nothing more than government propaganda. having no legal guns
on the street doesnt reduce the crime, it simply reduces the means to commit the
crimes but certainly doesnt remove it all together
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/lowkey-welcome-as-dutch-shooting-victim-heads-home/2007/07/24/1185043041251.html
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22191191-5005961,00.html?from=public_rss
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22124958-5005961,00.html?from=public_rss
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22109365-5005961,00.html?from=public_rss
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22097491-5005961,00.html?from=public_rss
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22061002-662,00.html?from=public_rss
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22038062-5005961,00.html?from=public_rss

you can keep believing that only the big gangs have the guns, but aparently
they're more widespread than you believe and while it may seem safer believing
these guns are not on the streets, I think I'd rather have the quick death,
especialy if I were one of the survivors
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22078895-2862,00.html?from=public_rss

I think the gun debate does in fact work for austrailia, sure hand gun violence
is down, but violent crime is on the rise, hell it seems that alcohol is to
blame, not the guns, I wonder how peaceful it would be with no booze but plenty
of guns
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/04/18/1176696916790.html
http://ink.news.com.au/mercury/mathguys/articles/1994/940823a1.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2005/08/16/1438466.htm



Quote:

So the pro-gun debate doesn't really work down here. I understand it's like a serious debate in America and people take it seriously.



of course not, hand gun violence is at an all time low, rape, murder and
assorted assault with other weapons are at an all time high, the gun debate
doesnt work because you're told to believe it doesnt.

and from the same government propaganda source...
http://www.aic.gov.au/stats/crime/violence.html

Quote:
But we just find it amazing that there even could be a debate. Like i can't imagine anyone from Aust. reading through this thread and not just being amazed about talk of people owning concealed handguns.



did you know a small town in Georgia passed a law that states that all
households not barred from owning firearms are required to do so? did you
know that the crime rates are almost non-existant?
http://www.rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: undergrounder]
    #7258662 -

undergrounder said:
Just ban guns altogether and the most you have to worry about is a knife.



you must explain all the knife shootings in australia over the last few years

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7258699 -

Convert the jpeg to PNG using paint. Save as a PNG file should work.


Oh yeah Rail_gun I was just about to bring up that little Nazi argumant you have there. One of the first things Hitler did while in power was take away guns from citizens(everyone) for "the greater good". He claimed it was for safety of the nation.
:nonono:

Thats odd, I didnt know Geaorgis you could carry an unconcealed gun like that. Are the gun-related deaths/violence up, or down?


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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: The Crow]
    #7258719 -

The Crow said:
Thats odd, I didnt know Geaorgis you could carry an unconcealed gun like that. Are the gun-related deaths/violence up, or down?



statewide it's a little under average for the population, in some cities like Kennesaw it's drastically below average by about 400%.

Quote:
But Kennesaw's crime rate plummeted. In fact, the number of some crimes declined amid soaring population growth. For example, in figures the city provided to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, Kennesaw had 54 burglaries in 1981 – the year before the gun ordinance – with a population of 5,242. In 1999, with a population of 19,000, only 36 burglaries were reported.

The rate of violent crime is approximately four times lower than the state and national rates, Kennesaw's Crime Statistics Report said. "Violent crime is almost nonexistent in residential neighborhoods," Graydon told UPI. The detective, who has been with the police department since 1986, said the isolated exceptions take place in motels or in commercial areas.



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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: undergrounder]
    #7258822 -

undergrounder said:
The buyback and ban on firearms occurred in 1996. Thanks to whoever it was that posted this link: http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi066.html you can see there has been a 47% decrease in firearm deaths over the period and a sharp drop straight after 1996.

.



They  included suicides.:lol:


Anyway look at this.

http://www.ssaa.org.au/newssaa/political%20archive/legislativereports/iladec97.htm

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7258833 -

Wow well full marks for effort, that's a lot of news reports there. As i said, firearms stories are big news in Australia. Every time a gun goes off it sends shockwaves through the country...

I agree that you can't stop crime by banning guns but my argument is nothing about crime or guns causing crime or anything like that. It is simply that firearms offences in Australia are rare and on the decrease, partly it has to be said to the ban on guns(1). Of all reported robberies committed here, just 6% are carried out with a gun, just 14% of all armed robberies are carried out with a gun(1).

In fact i didn't initially mean to get into a debate about gun control at all, that's for you guys. As in my original post, I just wanted to relay the general bewilderment that most people in this country feel, when told about how it is legal to carry concealed guns in the US. I know there are arguments for it, and a whole tradition of a right to bear arms, but it just seems so alien to most of us (especially the idea of anyone being legally allowed to own an assault rifle :roulette:).

1.http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Previousproducts/1301.0Feature%20Article132003?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=1301.0&issue=2003&num=&view=


--------------------
:igor: RIP :igor:

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :mushroom2: :shroomer: :mushroom2: :supershroom: :pinkshroom:

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: undergrounder]
    #7258844 -

Quote:
The catch-22 is that you also have to be worried that the person attacking you might now have a gun.



Someone with a baseball bat is more inclined to use his weapon than someone with a gun, because guns have a death stigma. People who are out to kill are fairly rare but they are lethal with any weapon.

Quote:
A certain freedom of gun laws means that guns are inevitably everywhere.



No. That entirely depends on the exact rules that apply for gun-ownership. If you use police records, a cooling down period and a brief psychological evaluation to weed out the sociopaths, hardened criminals, the intellectually unsound and people who are in profound mental turmoil at the time of gun purchase, you're going to end up with the 8 out of 10 people who can be reasonably expected to handle firearms responsibly. And out of those, a few at most would apply for gun ownership to begin with.

Quote:
Just ban guns altogether and the most you have to worry about is a knife.



If you should worry at all you'd better worry about evil people instead of the weapons they use. People who have been in and out of jails for all sorts of violent crime, who habitually stomp people into a pulp and who at one fateful night happen to set their sights on you. To some people their fellow man is no more than what a mouse is to a bored cat.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: Asante]
    #7258876 -

buckwheat said:
undergrounder said:
The buyback and ban on firearms occurred in 1996. Thanks to whoever it was that posted this link: http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi066.html you can see there has been a 47% decrease in firearm deaths over the period and a sharp drop straight after 1996.

.



They  included suicides.:lol:


Anyway look at this.

http://www.ssaa.org.au/newssaa/political%20archive/legislativereports/iladec97.htm



Yeah and homicides. Anyway that wasn't my link that was Prisoner#1s... Which by the way he initially used as proof of the horrible rate of gun crime in Australia, then quickly rejected as 'progoganda' after it actually showed firearm incidents decreasing. Oops.

I'd read that link but don't bother sourcing the ssaa for non-biased information, give the Bureau of Stats a go: http://www.abs.gov.au/


--------------------
:igor: RIP :igor:

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :mushroom2: :shroomer: :mushroom2: :supershroom: :pinkshroom:

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: Asante]
    #7258899 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Someone with a baseball bat is more inclined to use his weapon than someone with a gun, because guns have a death stigma. People who are out to kill are fairly rare but they are lethal with any weapon.

No. That entirely depends on the exact rules that apply for gun-ownership. If you use police records, a cooling down period and a brief psychological evaluation to weed out the sociopaths, hardened criminals, the intellectually unsound and people who are in profound mental turmoil at the time of gun purchase, you're going to end up with the 8 out of 10 people who can be reasonably expected to handle firearms responsibly. And out of those, a few at most would apply for gun ownership to begin with.

If you should worry at all you'd better worry about evil people instead of the weapons they use. People who have been in and out of jails for all sorts of violent crime, who habitually stomp people into a pulp and who at one fateful night happen to set their sights on you. To some people their fellow man is no more than what a mouse is to a bored cat.



Come on Wiccan_Seeker you wrote a great Tek on capsules how can you honestly think that someone who is out to kill is more dangerous with a baseball bat than with a gun?

I don't understand the second point, but we both know that once guns are in the system, whether stolen or sold, lots trickle through to criminals. The proof of that is small-time crooks here don't have guns, they are near impossible to find. In America you can talk to the local crack-dealer on the street and pick one up. You can't stop the crims getting the guns unless you stop all guns getting into the system... Anyway 'gun control' isn't my debate.

No i'm not worried about criminals, our country was founded by them. I'm more worried about criminals with guns, and if it were legal i would be petrified about the possibillity of the little old lady in the grocery aisle packing a DEagle in her knickers... Like that seriously scares me. Like a story i saw on TV about an elderly woman who 'protected' her husband by drawing a concealed gun and shooting dead the police officer who was trying to apprehend him. Well-meaning middle-class suburbanites with a Beretta in their purses... :runaway:

Anyway its 4am here. Didn't mean to get drawn into American gun laws.


--------------------
:igor: RIP :igor:

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :mushroom2: :shroomer: :mushroom2: :supershroom: :pinkshroom:

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: undergrounder]
    #7258951 -

undergrounder said:
Wow well full marks for effort, that's a lot of news reports there. As i said, firearms stories are big news in Australia. Every time a gun goes off it sends shockwaves through the country...



recent news reports, all within the last month, those shockwaves are nothing
more that the government stomping it's feet to 'prove' that the streets are
safer, while the news show a different story, all countries should be happy that
the average news viewer has a memory span of about 20 minutes

Quote:
I agree that you can't stop crime by banning guns but my argument is nothing about crime or guns causing crime or anything like that. It is simply that firearms offences in Australia are rare and on the decrease, partly it has to be said to the ban on guns(1).



crimes involving guns may be down but that has an adverse affect on crime it's self. looking through headlines and statistics theres a very serious bias, the
decline is always listed as 'gun related', not murder/manslaughter rates decline
many of these statistics show an increase in murder, manslaughter and assault


Quote:
I just wanted to relay the general bewilderment that most people in this country feel, when told about how it is legal to carry concealed guns in the US.  it just seems so alien to most of us (especially the idea of anyone being legally allowed to own an assault rifle :roulette:).




I'm bewildered that more austrailians arent questioning their government, arent
looking deeper into these supposed crime stats, and are more than willing to
accept at face value what they're told... just because theres only been a couple
of mass shootings since Port Arthur doesnt mean crime is down, it shows the
increase in violent crimes are attributed to a lack of 'means of defense', in
the UK theyve banned firearms, they show the same sort of increase (aussieville
has always been more peaceful and had fairly low crime statistics) and are
discussing the ban of air rifles, scotland is planning to ban knives, this
because they have an increase in violent crimes involving these weapons

all weapons used to commit an assault is an assault weapon, you can label a big
scary rifle as an assault rifle but it doesnt change the fact that my assault
knife is just as deadly, just as my assault bat will kill you just as dead

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: undergrounder]
    #7258957 -

Ironically if Australians would have allowed for concealed carry in the first place, maybe the single largest event that led to the widespread ban on most all semi-automatic firearms could have been averted.


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Same thing happened to me when I played Neil Armstrong in Moonshot. They found me in an alley in Burbank trying to re-enter the earth's atmosphere in an old refrigerator box.

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: undergrounder]
    #7258968 -

undergrounder said:
buckwheat said:
undergrounder said:
The buyback and ban on firearms occurred in 1996. Thanks to whoever it was that posted this link: http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi066.html you can see there has been a 47% decrease in firearm deaths over the period and a sharp drop straight after 1996.

.



They  included suicides.:lol:


Anyway look at this.

http://www.ssaa.org.au/newssaa/political%20archive/legislativereports/iladec97.htm



Yeah and homicides. Anyway that wasn't my link that was Prisoner#1s... Which by the way he initially used as proof of the horrible rate of gun crime in Australia, then quickly rejected as 'progoganda' after it actually showed firearm incidents decreasing. Oops.

I'd read that link but don't bother sourcing the ssaa for non-biased information, give the Bureau of Stats a go: http://www.abs.gov.au/



They have references at the bottom. You also need to look at non gun crime, which gun control advocates love to not do. Which seems to have gone up.Australia doesnt seem to have as big a increase since the bans as the UK which also saw an increase in actual gun crime but it still does. Meanwhile places that have concealed carry here or just large legit gun ownership, crime in general and gun crimes goes down. :shrug:

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2003/tab01a.html

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Re: Got my Concealed Handgun License [Re: buckwheat]
    #7258977 -

WakeboardrB said:
Ironically if Australians would have allowed for concealed carry in the first place, maybe the single largest event that led to the widespread ban on most all semi-automatic firearms could have been averted.



Yeah or maybe if there was a ban he wouldn't have been able to buy guns from newspaper ads and gun shops in the first place.

Buckwheat: Guns and crime are not particularly related, i don't think anyone disputes that. Its what you can do with a gun vs. what you can do with other weapons that is the difference (See above).

Prisoner#1: Ill reply in the morning. Night


--------------------
:igor: RIP :igor:

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :mushroom2: :shroomer: :mushroom2: :supershroom: :pinkshroom:

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