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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Pretending
    #7198960 -

This is taken from "resentment and forgiveness" thread because the discussion was derailing.
So I want to continue the argument here.
The discussion went like this:

MushroomTrip said:
backfromthedead said:
"why do you think that this program advices one into visualizing all that..."

Results??


My ENTIRE, unhoped question was:
"why do you think that this program advices one into visualizing all that, instead of doing it for real?"

Followed by:

"I mean actually looking for those people and telling them face to face all there was to say? "

Can you note the difference? :tongue:


And:

backfromthedead said:
Nah = no I can't see the difference.


Is there really no difference between visualizing something and actually doing it?
While I agree that everything starts mentally and that in order to get something done there has to be intention, and that in some cases, visualization can come as a great help, I also think that we must become aware of the fact that visualization is just a fragment of this entire experience we call life. Otherwise it risks on becoming like that ideal we never reach because we forget to put in practice what we dream about.
Too much "visualization" can make experience stagnate.
It's also true that taking action without intention can turn into a fiasco.
That's exactly why I think that we have to keep a balance between those two and use them at the right time, when the occasion requires them.

From what I observed, some people get so wrapped up in this visualization concept and then tend to confuse it with taking action.
Thoughts?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Pretending [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7199354 -

i'm not sure what they are talking about,

manifesting things, sort of like the secret?

it depends on how sharp your mind is. attained people can see with their physical eyes what they imagine. this may yield the capacity to heal oneself by placing light inside the body and the bodies of others, and things like that

is it in reference to visualizing an ideal and then trying to find it, like imagining the love of your life, projecting all that goodness into a person, then trying to really experience that love when you are with that person?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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Re: Pretending [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7199370 -

Visualizing is like a mental game of "practice makes perfect"....
Which may or may not translate and transpire in the real world....

It may not be an actual necessity, but perhaps there is a healthy balance one must find if used as a tool in life....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: Pretending [Re: leery11]
    #7199442 -

Yes I am aware of the fact that visualizing (intention) has incredible qualities and directly affects the way we think and feel. But I don't see any reason in stopping there.
The example I gave is just one of the many I hear: that there's no difference between visualizing and taking action.
I think that if we stop ourselves from taking action, visualizing also loses from its qualities and becomes close to meaning nothing.
Everything in this life is linked to something else and being able to recognize this is being able to enjoy the multiple aspects of life. Why should we limit ourselves when we can have so much more?
Why shouldn't we apply in "real life" what we imagine?
I guess that what I was trying to emphasize is that we should never think that one of those two (dreaming and taking action) have to exclude the other and that when used together we experience life on a deeper level :yinyang:
And also that I think that it's an error to think that there's no difference between them.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Pretending [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7199496 -

Visualizing will get you going and it does have it's place, but acting will take you all of the way there. By my way of thought one visualizes...then they act. As Castaneda said:

Quote:
A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon.



--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Pretending [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7199622 -

Yes :smile:
I think one of the reasons some people tend to confuse or find an equivalent between those two is because visualizing can become very strong and feel very real. And that amazement is the one that makes some believe that it's all the same.
We're not really being educated into tapping the infinite potential of our psyche and when we (more or less accidentally) discover it, we're so amazed by it that we're left unable to make the right differences.

That's why I think that the next step one can do is grounding oneself so one has the time to assimilate the new aspects one's been confronting with and then draw the right conclusions.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Pretending [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7199640 -

In boardsports, visualization is the first step in the process of taking action. You have to be able to project what you want to see in the material world onto that big screen inside your head first. Blindly taking action without visualizing is plain trial and error. On a board it hurts to make these failed attempts. I think it more of a spectrum of action. Not action and non action.

Is reality external, really?? Yours??

'Too much "visualization"'

Didn't know there was such a thing.

The word seer comes to mind.


--------------------

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Re: Pretending [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7199651 -

"right conclusions"

Such as??


--------------------

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Re: Pretending [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7199658 -

Quote:
'Too much "visualization"'

Didn't know there was such a thing.


Too much visualization doesn't have to be considered by it's quantity, but by the effects it produces.
For example, "too much visualization" happens (and can be tested) when one forgets to take action... or see no difference between those two. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Pretending [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7199670 -

Quote:
Too much visualization doesn't have to be considered by it's quantity, but by the effects it produces.


When I was 15 years old I envisioned myself as a starship captain for hours every day when I was bored...needless to say I did not become one.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Pretending [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7199678 -

:lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Pretending [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7199711 -

'backfromthedead said:

Nah = no I can't see the difference.'

Must be too much visualization.

That or I was just in sarchasm (OC) mode due to the 'visualization is futile' post.

To each his own.

Onward.


--------------------

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Re: Pretending [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7199836 -

It didn't look like a joke and believe it or not, I'm not a "psychic"  :thirdeyeani: :lol:
Also I said: "The example I gave is just one of the many I hear: that there's no difference between visualizing and taking action."
I never stated in the forgiving thread that visualization is futile, I clearly stated that the method that was presented seemed futile and not in concordance with reality, for the reasons I stated there and which I have no intention on dragging them here.
And once again, to make it clear, this subject was not addressed to you and the reason why I quoted your words was just to give an example of what I was talking about.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Pretending [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7199967 -

To paraphrase your post,

1. What you visualize is not actually happening outside of you.
2. Visualization must be used in the right way.

No one, unless seriously delusional or irrational, is going to disagree with these statements. What sort of discussion are you hoping to instigate?

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Re: Pretending [Re: Epigallo]
    #7199994 -

Given the widespread phenomenon of seriously delusional or irrational individuals, which is prolific everywhere, including these boards, perhaps she was interested in engaging them in discussion? :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Pretending [Re: Epigallo]
    #7200003 -

Quote:
To paraphrase your post,

1. What you visualize is not actually happening outside of you.
2. Visualization must be used in the right way.

No one, unless seriously delusional or irrational, is going to disagree with these statements.


Read them in THAT particular context and meybe that would shed some light on where I was getting to.

Quote:
What sort of discussion are you hoping to instigate?


I am hoping to instigate something now? :strokebeard: :what:
From what I recall, the idea I presented was pretty obvious.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Pretending [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7200038 -

Quote:
I am hoping to instigate something now?


Yes, a discussion.:shrug: You did ask for thoughts.


Quote:
From what I recall, the idea I presented was pretty obvious.


I agree it was obvious, unless seriously delusional, and therefore was wondering why you are trying to instigate a discussion based on a pretty obvious statement.

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Re: Pretending [Re: Epigallo]
    #7200061 -

not so much why I guess as the question of what we are supposed to discuss

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Re: Pretending [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7200065 -

Is there really no difference between visualizing something and actually doing it?

:shrug: A weird thing happened today,

I was throwing a wad of paper into a trash can today and missed. I missed because I tried to visualize what it would look like going into the trash can instead of how it felt to throw something the size of the wad of paper the proper distance so it would land in the trash can.

I can't quite recall exactly learning to throw things accurately, but I think the visualization was more like seeing it fall or hit a target, where now it is about how it would feel, how much effort to exert.

Not really your question, but I think my answer is more of a sidetrack than a derail.

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Re: Pretending [Re: Epigallo]
    #7200075 -

Quote:
I agree it was obvious, unless seriously delusional, and therefore was wondering why you are trying to instigate a discussion based on a pretty obvious statement.


Umm... exactly what I stated?
That considering the fact that there are people who confuse visualizing with taking action I think that a proper differentiation between those two must be done. :shrug:

Also the term instigate means:

Quote:
in·sti·gate      /ˈɪnstɪˌgeɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-sti-geyt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object), -gat·ed, -gat·ing.
1. to cause by incitement; foment: to instigate a quarrel.
2. to urge, provoke, or incite to some action or course: to instigate the people to revolt.
[Origin: 1535–45; < L instīgātus ptp. of instīgāre to goad on, impel, equiv. to in- in-2 + -stīg- goad, prick (akin to stigma, stick2) + -ātus -ate1]


Now tell me, what lead you to the conclusion that I was trying to "instigate" something? :sherlock:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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