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The Casimir Effect.....
    #6895705 -

Soooo, I was thinking about this a little more....
What would happen if you made two "mold halves" that both had a "perfect" sphere cavity with a mirrored finish....
Then you made a very thin but solid lightweight membrane sphere with an outside mirrored finish -
and then placed it into the slightly oversized closed "mold" spherical cavity....

Would the mirrored hollow sphere "float" equidistant within the cavity due to the Casimir Effect force being equal on both of the spherical surfaces....?






For reference....:
The Casimir effect: a force from nothing

"""While the Casimir force is too small to be observed for mirrors that are several metres apart, it can be measured if the mirrors are within microns of each other. For example, two mirrors with an area of 1 cm2 separated by a distance of 1 µm have an attractive Casimir force of about 10-7 N - roughly the weight of a water droplet that is half a millimetre in diameter. Although this force might appear small, at distances below a micrometre the Casimir force becomes the strongest force between two neutral objects. Indeed at separations of 10 nm - about a hundred times the typical size of an atom - the Casimir effect produces the equivalent of 1 atmosphere of pressure. """


>^;;^<


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I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: The Casimir Effect..... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #6895876 -

good question, i dont know though, couldnt the oversized spheres become one though once closed. i assume that the mold is closed and the smaller sphere membrane fits in between with no space between the molds. from what ive read before the effect is from two objects, but if you had the molds closed wouldnt they assume some sort of new equivalent neutral natural frequency and somehow bias it to one direction. i see you are looking for basically an endless free source of energy, however all i have seen is 2 seperate metals. i think the two molds would act as one. good question though

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Re: The Casimir Effect..... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #6896704 -

I think while this is possible in theory...I doubt you could ever do it because of technical issues.

You would have to make sure the object was placed directly in the center, otherwise you would have a stronger force on one side and it would be pulled to that side.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: The Casimir Effect..... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #6898142 -

Also reminds me of Schroedinger's cat - if the mold is metal, closed, and mirrored, how are you to observe whether or not it is actually floating?


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delta9

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Re: The Casimir Effect..... [Re: delta9]
    #6898362 -

I am just working thru some ideas now, to see what flies and what doesn't.... 
I got a lot of shite~ runnin thru muh head, but need to work out the right material properties and such....

If the sphere was constructed on an axial "pin" (with matching clearance holes in the mold at the parting face),
the location could be set specifically, and would be feasibly manufacturable....

The mold doesn't have to be all metal, just the mirrored surfaces - as I understand it....

And if you were to flow a gas or liquid thru the gap, flow sensors would let you know if it was centered right....
I haven't thrown out the whole idea here, mind you....    Just working thru some aspects of it out loud....  :thumbup:

Thanx~ guys....    :smile:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: The Casimir Effect..... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #6900669 -

> how are you to observe whether or not it is actually floating?

Use a laser to measure the distance from a fixed position to the top of the float. Put a weight on the float. Did the distance decrease? If so, the float was floating, if not the float was not floating. (assuming the weight is large enough to cancel out the "force of float") The "weight" of the photons hitting the float should not be enough to invalidate the results.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: The Casimir Effect..... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #6904621 -

Quote:
Would the mirrored hollow sphere "float" equidistant within the cavity due to the Casimir Effect force being equal on both of the spherical surfaces....?


No, the center of the sphere is an unstable equilibrium point and any perturbation from "centerness", or imperfections in the setup, will cause the sphere to move out of the center and stay out (like Trendal said).

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Re: The Casimir Effect..... [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #6904790 -

Ok, so the behaviour would be like two separate surfaces pulling like magnetic polar opposites - attracting at the closest points....
That means that just the mere effect of gravity would tug it down every time - whether it was in a vacuum or not....

I wonder if there is an actual "equilibrium point" within the distance of separation between the sphere and the cavity.... 
I dunno~ if there is a plottable curve of Casimir force strength that is related to this gap distance, but it would be neat to see it....    :ohwell:
I would **think**, that the spherical shape would be very inherently different in possible effects - as compared to to flat parallel planes....
If there was a point of diametrical :lol: focus where the Casimir force inverted because of being contained within a spherical cavity shape - 
a big "IF", but if there is, there might be some magic there at that gap distance....

I think I am just talking out my ass now.....      :lol:  :gethigh:
Sorry....  :tongue:    :ohwell:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: The Casimir Effect..... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #6908680 -

Try balancing a microscopic pencil on it's point and see how well this concept plays out in practice.

Also, wouldn't this have to be done in an absolutely zero gravity environment (which doesn't exist)? Even micro-gravity would unbalance the vector of force on the float, if I'm understanding this correctly.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: The Casimir Effect..... [Re: Konnrade]
    #6910671 -

Konnrade said:
Also, wouldn't this have to be done in an absolutely zero gravity environment (which doesn't exist)? Even micro-gravity would unbalance the vector of force on the float, if I'm understanding this correctly.


PhanTomCat said:
That means that just the mere effect of gravity would tug it down every time - whether it was in a vacuum or not....



Embeded like-sided magnets might overcome this effect, but may throw out the thin "membrane" line of thought....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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