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Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour?
    #3770050 -

I started this hobby about a month ago after seeing how much fun a friend of mine was having.  I can't thank him enough for all his help.  We do a pressure cooker load of half pint brf jars every weekend side by side at his house.  We did that for 3 weeks in a row and i got to see in person all his steps and got some hands on practice which was great.  I just did my first batch this past weekend and it was all by myself.  I got 0% contamination in 16jars so I am very happy, although compared to my prior 3 batches with him it seems a tad dry.  Our first 2 batches we used brf/verm/water, but due to the fact that brf is very hard to get in our town, were forced to mix in some rye flour to stretch the brf to finish the batch.  It seemed to change the consistency of the mix a bit, but we had similar colonization times and contam %s. 

Well, I got the last bag of brf in town last week for my first solo batch :laugh:  I went to the local grocery stores this week, and came home with soy flour and whole wheat flour.  I searched for any references for soy flour and I wasn't very successful in finding any.  My question is: has anyone ever used soy flour, and how does it compare to brf in your opinion?  Comments on whole wheat flour would be appreciated also.  Thanks in advance for any information or advice.


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If you cut off my head, what would I say? Me and my head, or me and my body?

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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #3770092 -

From what I read, soy flour didn't perform well at all when used as a sole substitute for BRF.

You can use birdseed flour, millet flour,oatmeal flour and corn flour with good results.


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: Anno]
    #3770624 -

Rye grass seed also works great as a flour.


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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


:sun:

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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: KaptKid]
    #3770686 -

can just buy brown rice and grind it up in the blender


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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #3770788 -

use a coffee grinder, or a mortar and pestle, blender wont do the job good enough

oh and rye flour works good too


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Grown on Uncle Ben's 5 Minute Rice
Looks nice, Think again, read and see http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3576624/an/0/page/0


Edited by penlight438094 (02/12/05 02:13 PM)

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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: penlight438094]
    #3770912 -

soy flor has 1/4 nutes of brf


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Ya pussy is awsome.

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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: fart]
    #3770925 -

>soy flor has 1/4 nutes of brf

Can you provide me a citation for this, please? Since I think this is bullshit.


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: Anno]
    #3770951 -

whole wheat - i'm sure ive seen it around here on the sites -- but your going to have to search for it.
if brf is hard, you can do birdseed like anno said which gives great results.
penlight and shizno's idea might be YOUR best bet though-- to instead of adjusting the type of flour around, just buy a bag of brown rice (which should be available in a lot of grocery shops) and ground it up yourself -- coffee grinder worked best for me when i did it. got what i declared 'perfect' consistency.
you can start trying other flours maybe after you get a grow or two under your belt --- the pf-tek(brf) was made to be pretty 'easy-to-follow'
good luck to ya bro.
-Victor

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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: Victor]
    #3772573 -

Thank you for all your good answers.  Since it is a hobby and I am having fun messing around.  I decided to mess around this weekend.  I made 12 jars with the soy flour.  It had a pretty odd consistency, but I crumbled it up for aeration as I put it in the jars.  I also made 12 jars with whole wheat flour.  It had a similar consistency to the soy flour, so I crumbled it also.  For my last 10 jars I did just whole brown rice.  I followed the cooking directions, rinsed 3 times and let drain in a strainer for 20mins.  I will see how they all go.  I inoculated with my first karo jar of mycelium, so it is a lot of different stuff from the brf tek I had done the previous 4 weeks.  Good news is health food store is getting brf in this week and I plan to buy a blender :smile:  Powdered rice and wbs flour sound like they might be best replacement if I can't get brf during a given week.  Will let you know if the soy and wheat bomb, do average, or excel.

O yeah, another quick question.  Rye grass seed was mentioned as a possible flour to make.  Just plain rye grass seed? or do I need rye berries?  I can find the actual seed all over my town, havent found any berries yet tho.


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If you cut off my head, what would I say? Me and my head, or me and my body?

Edited by Underhillmaster (02/13/05 01:53 AM)

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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #3772864 -

I'm w/ anno...maybe not as agressiving so, but it you have some info. that delves into the nute. content a bit more then please, pm it to me. thankx...

-Gnostic


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For the sake of those seeking knowledge.
I've provided some in my signature.
Double Tek Pictorial
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Soaking wbs - The Final Answer by Agar
50/50 Coco Coir versus 50/50 Peat Moss.

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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #3772898 -

Can you use Karo syrup as substrate to produce more inoculate???


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"My mom thinks I'm special"

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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: crazymanja]
    #3772911 -

blender will work fine.


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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #3800904 -

Well it has been a week since I inoculated my experimental jars.  Although the whole wheat flour cakes look completely solid, with no air pockets like you see in brf cakes, it is colonizing the fastest.  Most of them seem over halfway colonized, which is comparable with my results with brf so far.  Cooked brown rice seems to be going 2nd.  All jars are showing significant growth.  The soy jars are colonizing, but after pressure cooking, they have extremely excessive air pockets imo, and they are lagging behind the other 2. 

I had a few other jars that i started at this time since i was using liquid mycellium.  It was my first attempt at karo tek and i made 2 qt jars lol.  So I decided to try a lot of different things.  Coffee soaked wbs is showing growth.  Coffee soaked popcorn is not(darn water content).  The one I am most excited about however is quaker oats with verm and water, same ratio as brf tek.  I used one gentlemans tek on splitting the water in half and hydrated the verm and oats seperately before mixing.  The single jar i did of this is going faster than my brf cakes do.  So I am gonna do a whole batch of oats mix and see how that goes.  Eventually I hope to find a good mix of say wbs flour, brf flour, oats, and who knows what else hehe. 

I am keeping sterility at the top of my list of concerns atm and all my experiment jars are getting a fair chance to show what they can do.  I have only had 6 contam jars out of 90 so far.  Although I have lost near all my quart jar experiments( wbs, popcorn, hominy, lima beans :smile:).  Will keep you updated on progress.

Here is the only nutrional information I know about brf, soy, and whole wheat flour.

Brown Rice Flour per 1/4 cup serving.
Total Fat          1g                           
Potassium          75mg
Total Carbohydrates 27g
Dietary Fiber      2g
Protein            3g
  % of Daily Requirements
Thiamin 8%
Niacin  8%
Iron    4%


Soy Flour                      per 1/4 cup
Sodium              10mg
Total Carbohydrates  9g
Dietary Fiber        6g
Sugars              2g
Protein              15g
  % of Daily Requirements
Calcium 6%
Iron    20%



Whole Wheat flour        per 1/4 cup
Total Fat              .5g
Potassium              110mg
Total Carbohydrate      21g
Dietary Fiber          3g
Protein                4g
  % of Daily Requirements
Iron      6%
Thiamin  8%
Riboflavin 2%
Niacin    6%


All this info came from the side of the package for whatever it means.


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If you cut off my head, what would I say? Me and my head, or me and my body?

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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #3920693 -

So, this is only a stream of consciousness here and purely based on things I've read about human nutrition (in contexts unrelated to mushroom cultivation) but maybe some of it applies...

If the mycelium grows well in rice flour and even better (more prolific) in oat flour then I would say that the mycelium probably seeks out sugars (carbohydrates) for fast and hardy colonization and for energy to prepare for the fruiting phase. One thing I'd be interested in knowing is how (whether or not) amino acids and minerals play into the growth phase at all (complete proteins via the amino acid chain). Rice soy and corn by themselves are not complete proteins. Combine rice and soy, or corn and soy (or rice/corn and any bean) and you have a more complete protein. Qinoa is almost a complete protein by itself and is one of the most nutritious grains you can eat. While it seems that proteins don't play much of a role in the fast and hardy colonization of mycelium (I'm basing this on the aparent slow growth in soy flour) I'll bet that the fruiting body needs different nutrients (amino acids, minerals, vegetable lipids, proteins) to grow healthy and mature. Mushrooms are supposed to be high in some trace minerals... I wonder if they take these minerals from the soil or if they convert other nutrients for their own needs? After all, in nature soil consists of rotting life forms and is high in nitrogen. add these life forms together and you have a lot of nutrients. Brown rice by itself doesn't supply all of these nutrients.

Check out Amaranth flour as an alternative to quinoa. You can get most of these "odd" flours at health food stores and coops. For those of you on the tryptophan kick, notice that Amaranth is higher in tryptophan than quinoa per 100g. Stuff to think about anyway... Any ideas?

Nutrient profile of crimini's:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=97

Amino acids:
http://www.innvista.com/health/nutrition/amino/intro.htm

Quinoa profiles:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=142
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=recipe&dbid=109
http://waltonfeed.com/quinoa.html

Amaranth profile:
http://waltonfeed.com/self/amaranth.html


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The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky

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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: Anno]
    #3920853 -

Does wild bird seed flour jars need to pressure cook longer than brf jars?


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]

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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #3920870 -

No.


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: Anno]
    #6709474 -

can Amaranth flour be used in place of BRF in the pf tek?
used in the same ratio?
can this flour be boiled (steam sterilized) or is pc 100% necessary like rye flour?
anyone experiment with this? better/quicker/stronger? worse??


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"oh god...did you eat all this acid...?
you better pray to god there's some thorazine in that bag,
otherwise you're in bad fucking trouble..." - Raoul Duke

*everything written above is hypothetical, a farce, balderdash*

Edited by themycologist (03/25/07 02:38 PM)

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Re: Soy Flour as an alternative to Brown Rice Flour? [Re: Anno]
    #6710091 -

would you say that using birdseed flour, rather than brown rice flour, would give more potent mushrooms?

how about millet flour?


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http://www.doctorfungus.org

http://www.mushroomexpert.com/

http://www.textbookofbacteriology.net

http://bugs.bio.usyd.edu.au/learning/resources/Mycology/index.html

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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