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Offlineshroom_king
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Panaeolus cyanescens
    #6535601 - 02/05/07 11:45 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

well Ive been searching left and right for information on Panaeolus cyanescens but haven't been able to find a drop. so far only cultivation methods and pictures. i found some look alike (but don't have a camera) so i was wondering if any one could give me any basic ID information on them, if so thanks :thumbup:

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Offlinecanid
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: shroom_king]
    #6535615 - 02/05/07 11:52 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

search Copelandia cyanescens. i think they may be concenced to be placed back in Panaeolus now, but you will find more info on them under that synonym.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: canid]
    #6535621 - 02/05/07 11:56 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, the current taxonomy classifies the species as a Panaeolus, but I often search synonyms of different species- both previous classifications, and also common names, such as "Cope(s)" in this case.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: shroom_king]
    #6536407 - 02/06/07 10:23 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

While European mycologists refer to a single species as Panaeolus cyanescens, Singer had made this a separate genera based on microscopic differences in the genera of Copelandia.

And many Americans refer to it as a Copelandia mushroom, hence Copelandia cyanescens.

Guzmán wrote that Panaeolus cyanescens and Copelandia cyanescens are the same species following two different taxonomic pathways.

And over the years, 13 distinct species and/or variations of Copelandia are now recognized.

You need to read the journal article by Guzmán, Allen and Gartz on the "Worldwide Distribution of the Neurotropic Fungi" posted at this site or at the mj site.

Also the Hawaiian papers on Copelandia cyanescens and other psychoactive fungi in Hawaii and Species Identification of Hawaiian Species at the website below:

http://www.mushroomjohn.com/articles.htm

mj

Copelandia Species

20. Copelandia affinis Horak [= Panaeolus affinis (Horak) Ew. Gerhardt].
21. C. anomala (Murrill) Singer [= Panaeolus anomalus (Murrill) Sacc. & Trotter; about Gerhardt, 1996, this species is a synonym of Copelandia cyanescens).
22. C. bispora (Malençon & Bertault) Singer & R.A. Weeks [= C. papilionacea var. bispora Malençon & Bertault; Panaeolus cyanescens var. bisporus (Malençon & Bertault) G. Moreno & Esteve-Ravis.; P. bisporus (Malençon & Bertault) Ew. Gerhardt].
23. C. cambodginiensis (Ola'h & R. Heim) Singer & R.A. Weeks (= Panaeolus cambodginiensis Ola'h & R. Heim).
24. C. chlorocystis Singer & R.A. Weeks [= Panaeolus chlorocystis (Singer & R.W. Weeks) Ew. Gerhardt].
25. C. cyanescens (Berk. & Broome) Singer [= Panaeolus cyanescens (Berk. & Broome) Sacc.; P. papilionaceus sensu Bres.) (see Copelandia westii) (Fig. 4).
26. C. lentisporus (Ew. Gerhardt) Guzmán (= Panaeolus lentisporus Ew. Gerhardt).
27. C. mexicana Guzmán (about Gerhardt, 1996, this a nom. excl.).
28. C. tirunelveliensis Natarajan & Raman [= Panaeolus tirunelveliensis (Natarajan & Raman) Ew. Gerhard].
29. C. tropica Natarajan & Raman (about Gerhard, 1996, this is a nom. dubia).
30. C. tropicalis (Ola'h) Singer & R.A. Weeks (= Panaeolus tropicalis Ola'h).
31. C. westii (Murrill) Singer (about Gerhardt, 1996, this a synonym of C. cyanescens).

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6536529 - 02/06/07 11:16 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mjshroomer said:
Guzmán wrote that Panaeolus cyanescens and Copelandia cyanescens are the same species following two different taxonomic pathways.

And over the years, 13 distinct species and/or variations of Copelandia are now recognized.



Wait.... so if they are the same species, the distinction must be a sub-species, or even less, two different "strains"(phenotypic variant). They Can't be in two different genera if they are the same species. Not formally any way. It would be more like, Panaeolus cyanescens var. copelandia.

But then, with the "13 distinct species and/or variations" things get messy... Those 13 seem to me as though they would only be strains of the species or sub-species. I mean, the allegedly distinct Pan. cyanescens and Cope. cyanescens can "mate", correct?


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: CureCat]
    #6536600 - 02/06/07 11:56 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

No, they are just different names for the same species. Some mycologists seperate out the bluing tropical panaeolus into copelandia and some lump them all together under just panaeolus.


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Workman]
    #6537080 - 02/06/07 02:59 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

That is what I thought. So then, the 13 mentioned variants of P. cyanescens are equivalent to "strains", as with geographically represented collections of Ps. cubensis described as different "strains"?


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: CureCat]
    #6537240 - 02/06/07 04:09 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

No, the 13 species are actually different species. But they are all Copelandia = tropical bluing Panaeolus. It is confusing because all of the Copelandia look very similar.

Personally, I think most of those 13 species have so few differences (mostly microscopic) from Copelandia cyanescens that they aren't valid species. In contrast, all of the strains of Psilocybe cubensis should have identical (within published ranges of variation) microscopic features since they are the same species.

Most spore vendors are not mushroom taxonomists and just call all of their tropical Panaeolus, Panaeolus (Copelandia) cyanescens since that seems to be the most common species. Vendor spores labeled as C. tropicalis or C. cambodginiensis have proven to be just strains of C. cyanescens. I've looked at several strains hoping to find one of the other species in the mix to no avail. Either they are very rare or I don't know what the hell to look for. The differences are academic anyway.


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Edited by Workman (02/06/07 04:16 PM)

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Workman]
    #6537398 - 02/06/07 05:36 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Ahh I see! Still then, Copelandia is a synonym which is out dated, and all of those bluing tropical active species are Panaeolus. So it would plainly be P. cyanescens, P. tropicalis, P. bispora, etc.

I thought what MJ was saying is that all 13 of the Copes mentioned were technically the same species (Pan. cyanescens).


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Edited by CureCat (02/06/07 05:37 PM)

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Offlinecanid
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: CureCat]
    #6537456 - 02/06/07 05:58 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

i guess not completely outdated, just arbitraty.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: canid]
    #6537580 - 02/06/07 06:34 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Well, by out-dated I mean not currently accepted by the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature.


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