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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
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Re: Copelandia Cyanescens in New Zealand? (Update on Zee_werps Comments) [Re: Feelers]
    #6999812 - 06/02/07 02:33 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Yes Australia does have Copelandias and I have fotos taken there by me and by others.


The term blue meanies came from the use of copes in Australiam, and in ref to the Beatles

Yellow Submarine blue meanies/

mj


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Invisiblecleeen
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Re: Copelandia Cyanescens in New Zealand? (Update on Zee_werps Comments) [Re: mjshroomer]
    #7000804 - 06/02/07 07:51 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Hi there mj ..

The copes in Australia , do you have a idea of how far south they are there ? ..


--------------------
It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..


Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!

Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.

Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Copelandia Cyanescens in New Zealand? (Update on Zee_werps Comments) [Re: cleeen]
    #7002838 - 06/03/07 12:59 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Darwin, Northern Territory, New South Wales, Brisbane, Qld; Coffs Harbour and Sydney, New South Wales, Tasmania; This species has a cosmopolitan distribution and occurs in the tropics and neotropics of both hemispheres. This species has 11 binomials (excluding Copelandia anomalus. Common in the dung of cows, water buffalo, Gaur and sometimes horses.

mj


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Invisiblezee_werp
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Re: Copelandia Cyanescens in New Zealand? (Update on Zee_werps Comments) [Re: mjshroomer]
    #7003790 - 06/03/07 05:50 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

The tropics and neotropics eh? I looked up neotropics and that simply means the "the tropical regions of the Americas". Here is a map showing the tropics highlighted in red. You can see that NZ is about as far from this as your home area MJ the north west coast of the US.



Also, experienced Australian shroomers such as bluemeanie have also said that they do not believe that Copes are in NZ...or many of the regions of Australia that you claim MJ, such as Tasmania. It's highly unlikely that Copes are in Tasmania, apparently. Like New Zealand, the climate is just not right. If the climate is right, then you need to change your description to "copes occur in the tropics, neotropics, and temperate regions of the world"


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Copelandia Cyanescens in New Zealand? (Update on Zee_werps Comments) [Re: zee_werp]
    #7005174 - 06/03/07 10:43 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

That would be the tropics and neotropics of both hemispheres. Florida to Texas has them and that is even not in your red zone.

So does southern China and the north of Vietnam and the northern Mediterranean Sea have Copelandia species in their countries, and a few years ago several crops in Bern, Switzerland of Copelandia bisporus appeared on a local Swiss Church lawn. I have pictures of those in Bern.

Copelandia species are also common in France, Italy and Spain and portions of northern Africa which are also not to much included in your red zone and Copelandia sp. have on a few occasions been found in the GB region on one of the islands, (Shefield and/or Hebrides)

I will only for the moment mention that Copelandia cyanescens has also been picked in Tumwater, Washington by both me and Paul Stamets on several different occasions at a local riding stable during the past thirty years.

mj

If the Australian paper disturbs you so much then I suggest that you then take it upon yourself to write a new book on the hallucinogenic mushrooms of Australia and New Zealand. Get Permission from Anzass.

You can write to the:

Acting or Current,
Principal Research Officer,
Narcotics Section,
Central Crime Intelligence Bureau,
Commonwealth Police Force,
Camberra, A.C.T.,
Australia.

[thats a real address]
Maybe they can help you out with some data.

I just spent two hours diggin up articles with images and this is by Dr. Southcott on shroom poisoning in Australian and NZ from a 1974 printed article in booklet from a respected Australian Journal, although I have a few papers a few years before identifying Copelandia as in both Northern and Southern Australia. However, I am at a point in my life where I am tired of digging up articles for everyone around here. It takes away my time and I have other shit to take care of more important work than answering to articles 15 years or older. I really hate to seem like an ass but i am really tired after 8 years of answering many of the same questions over and over and over ewvery two or three months because no one here is doing any research except may a few people in Holland, Workman, Roak Kill, xmush, Shroomy dan, Shirley Knight, Falcon, Xmush, Anno, roger rabbit and excuse me for the many other serious names I cannot remember right now because of the time I spent to put this together.

have a shroomy day and start goggling.

mj

Shit, you live there so then you have more resources than I do. Go to the libraries and research everything you want to know. Go to the schools go to the coklleges and universites and their herbariums. I listed six already for you, and then see if you can get a permit to study and then you can rewrite what I first wrote and correct any mistakes you feel are made in that publication. I do not have time to do it for you.

And one more thing, Erowid was informed about the Australia New Zealand corrections. I do not work for them so it is up to whenever they want to fix it or not.

There are dozens of papers and books there by others and they have been informed of errors yet have not fixed them.

The F. C. Ghouled's cube guide book for Texas to South Carolina is wrought with bad data. He lists the
Quote:

Amanita muscaria as the famed psilocybin mushroom of Mexico


and also shows two penis shaped young cubes and lists them as Panaeolus subbalteatus. That was in 1973.

That error led to a Dr. from Mississippi saying Panaeolus subbalteatus was the second most used mushroom in America.

Actually at the time of that book, The liberty cap was the most used species.



Here are three pages from Dr. Southcott;s
and the Drug Enforcement Authorities of ACT to possess and study such species.'

Here are three parts of three pages form Dr. Soputhcott;s paper in 1974. One of a photo of Copelandia cyanescens taken in 1974 by the Commonwealth Police.

I will not spend another hour in a storage bin diggin up old files anymore. Thats for sure.








mj

The reviewers who reviewed prior to submission of paper to journal. I also believe Andy Weil was one of the Journals peer reviewers for the paper before publication in 1991 and some police i worked with on my paper.

Quote:

Dr. Peter Buchanan and Dr. Peter Johnson of the Auckland D.S.I.R.; Detective Sergeant John Dearing of the Auckland Drug Squad. A special note of appreciation to Chris King of the University of Auckland for the use of his photographs of Psilocybe aucklandii, Psilocybe australiana and one unidentified species from New Zealand. The author also expresses his gratitude to Dr. Gaston Guzmán of the Instituto De Ecologia, A.C., Mexico, D.﷓F., and A. M. Young of Australia for their valuable assistance in reviewing the identification of species section; Dr. Mark D. Merlin of the University of Hawaii for his time and help in reviewing and editing this booklet for publication; Dr. Karl L. R. Jansen for editing and providing the section on New Zealand, who along with Dr. Rick Strassman of the University of New Mexico, Dr. Stanley Krippner of the Saybrook Institute and Dr. William Emboden of the California State University at Northridge reviewed the final manuscript; and a special note of gratitude to Dr. Roy Watling of the Royal Botanic Society of Edinburgh, Scotland, for his time and consideration in reviewing this manuscript prior to publication.




This is from the actual journal.

One more jopurnal note for you. This is form Persoonina journal of analysis of Copelandia cyanescens from Australia Tony Young collections, Hawaii and Thailand, from john Allen Collections) published in 1992),











And a closer look at the analysis of the Australian, Thai and Hawaiian copes.

mj


Edited by mjshroomer (06/04/07 01:09 AM)


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Invisiblezee_werp
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Re: Copelandia Cyanescens in New Zealand? (Update on Zee_werps Comments) [Re: mjshroomer]
    #7006157 - 06/04/07 03:10 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mjshroomer said:
That would be the tropics and neotropics of both hemispheres. Florida to Texas has them and that is even not in your red zone.




My red zone? That's your red zone MJ. You are the one that said that they occur in the tropics and neotropics. The picture shows the tropics and neotropics. (Neotropics = the section of the tropics that is located on the American continent). Maybe you meant the tropics and the subtropics? Or maybe you just meant that they occur anywhere? France or NZ are not in the subtropics either.

Quote:


If the Australian paper disturbs you so much then I suggest that you then take it upon yourself to write a new book on the hallucinogenic mushrooms of Australia and New Zealand.




Myself and some friends from local botanical scenes are considering this...only for NZ though. We wouldn't want to go publishing stuff about countries we aren't experienced in.

Quote:

have a shroomy day and start goggling.

Shit, you live there so then you have more resources than I do. Go to the libraries and research everything you want to know. Go to the schools go to the coklleges and universites and their herbariums. I listed six already for you





I have been to the libraries and universities and searched for everything I want to know. That's the whole reason why I am having this discussion with you. Because I cannot find any documented evidence of Copelandia cyanescens being in NZ, other than your article which was based on no collections that you can name.

Quote:

and then you can rewrite what I first wrote and correct any mistakes you feel are made in that publication. I do not have time to do it for you.




This may be in the works. Obviously I would not go to the effort of doing this, without checking with you, the author, first. If you could provide for me evidence of C. cyanescens being collected in NZ, being the only person who has ever published it's existence here, then I would find that satisfactory. Since you cannot, I have had chats with some friends and lecturers in the fields of mycology who feel that either a collection should be found, or that this should be corrected in the literature.

So can you clear this up please MJ...you haven't answered this directly yet. Was the publication in your article of the presence of C. cyanescens being in NZ based on an actual collection or citation of a specimen / herbarium sample, or not?

I really didn't want to have a lengthy debate over this, I am more just genuinely interested in whether or not it is present here. If it is true that it can occur in some of the locations you listed, then maybe it is possible for it to be in NZ. It's just that things seem a little sloppy. You must admit that the dots do not connect if you know what I mean, with the habitat, substrate, season, etc. for that species.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Copelandia Cyanescens in New Zealand? (Update on Zee_werps Comments) [Re: zee_werp]
    #7007040 - 06/04/07 12:36 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Dr. Karl L. R. Jansen provided the New Zealand Section in that paper. He works at Oxford, I am sure you can find the Oxford Faculty listed on the google. I have had no personnal communications with him in several years and I have no forwarding address. I am sure you can find that from one of his published books or papers on the google. You might have to buy one of his papers since most journal publications are only being offered online and not for printed reprints. I have to buy a lot of new ones and sometimes I post one or two but I am not going to do it for every paper I have on shrooms in my library.

Grill him about New Zealand because thats where he is from.

Contact Chris King of Auckland. He also wrote on the mushrooms of New Zealand.

Gavin Ninsky wrote Blue meanine and the She Devils about copes in New Zealand.

Find his book and contact him.

I really am not going to dig around in thousands of mailings to find two letters. They are are storage in about forty boxes of articles, letters to and from me and stored ever sice I came from Hawaii to Seattle in 1997. I have not gone trough most of them since and as I said it took me a few hours to dig up the cd and the actual printed Australian New Zealand paper by Dr. Southcott.

I do not have time for your personal project questions.

You will need to find that information on your own or with help of your friends in New Zealand.

mj


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OfflineFeelers
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Re: Copelandia Cyanescens in New Zealand? (Update on Zee_werps Comments) [Re: mjshroomer]
    #7009750 - 06/04/07 10:42 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Gavin Ninsky wrote Blue meanine and the She Devils about copes in New Zealand.




Man is it a strange world, when I first started up learning about magic mushrooms, I did a search and the only NZ thing that would pop up was his website. I read through his page and he listed his msn address, so I added him and asked my questions about magic mushrooms directly! :crazy2:

From my discussions with him I'm pretty sure he was referring to Subaeruginosa. He stated that he used to go though the pine forest and look for mushrooms that went blue, and that tripping out in the forest was they way to do things. I think he used the term blue meanies because that what his Australian mates called them. I brought up the fact that blue meanies were supposed to be in cow fields and he didn't  know what I was talking about, so at the time I thought I had it wrong.

Given that he was in the Auckland area and that he described to me where he found his mushrooms I'm pretty sure that he wasn't referring to copes, but subs, with his book.

The coincidence of his name popping up here was pretty damn weird!  :eek:


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Invisiblezee_werp
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Re: Copelandia Cyanescens in New Zealand? (Update on Zee_werps Comments) [Re: mjshroomer]
    #7010416 - 06/05/07 01:45 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

MJ, thanks for your reply.

That is fair enough that you don't want to dig up stuff that takes you hours to find in your boxes. I just thought that the answer (re: Cope collection) might have been more clear cut.

So thanks for taking the time to dig up resources you have mentioned in this thread, it gives me some great leads to follow up on.

I'll post it if I find any interesting bits of info.


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Offlinesatannz
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Re: Copelandia Cyanescens in New Zealand? [Re: montmont]
    #21777178 - 06/08/15 05:12 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

does anyone know if these might grow into Copelandia cyanescens, nelson area

I seriously have no idea what they are

http://postimg.org/image/9xn8wpnj9/


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Offlineent
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Re: Copelandia Cyanescens in New Zealand? [Re: satannz]
    #21777194 - 06/08/15 05:23 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

They're a Mycena species, so no.

Edit: lol ok


Edited by ent (06/08/15 05:26 AM)


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Copelandia Cyanescens in New Zealand? [Re: satannz]
    #21777196 - 06/08/15 05:24 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Your mushrooms are probably in the Mycenaceae family. More info needed.

Other than that, this thread is 8 years old. You should start your own thread
for identification requests.


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