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InvisibleZen Peddler
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bluestaining in cubensis - potency??
    #616061 - 04/23/02 06:49 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Considering that Stamet's qoutes figures that are both roughly 15% psilocybin for cultivated specimens of cubensis with different psilocin contents, could it be infered that the psilocin content was more variable in cubensis fruits? And if so, and as it has been infered that the blue-staining of psilocybes is their psilocin content oxidising, can we use the blue-staining of cubensis as an indicator of potency??
Also does anyon know why psilocybes have differing colours in bluestaining - as an example, woodlovers stain very dark blue, while cubensis often stain light blueish green.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #616081 - 04/23/02 07:38 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

"can we use the blue-staining of cubensis as an indicator of potency??"

I wouldn't bet on it. The theory has two conclusions, the blueing is eighter an excess of psilocin or a defecience of psilocybin. You have always to equate with the amount of both compounds and its interaction, being psilocybin the stabilization factor.

Peace,
MAIA


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: MAIA]
    #617036 - 04/24/02 05:14 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I see what your saying but, at the same time - you cant deny that more potent psilocybes stain bluer - azurescens stain dark blue to black


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Anonymous

Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #617039 - 04/24/02 05:29 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not so sure about the blue/potency relationship. I've had B+ that showed almost no signs of blue and I had uncontrollable giggle fits and bouts of silly insanity for many hours.
I don't know, maybe B+ is an exception.

-Boxtop



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OfflineMAIA
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #617053 - 04/24/02 06:13 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I won't deny that, they are examples of high concentration psilocin mushies. Cop. cyans also stain dark blue to black and are potent as hell, i think the problem understanding this process is realated to Cubies, some batch of some strain can blue intenselly but give a short or weak high, i just think that's the most logical explanation to this question. Anyway, you're asking about cubensis, right ?

Peace,
MAIA


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OfflineALHOFF177A17
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #617861 - 04/25/02 12:53 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

One thing that I never understood about bluing and oxidization is that you can take a piece of mycellium or a fruit and dip it into H2O2 and there is no bluing.


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Offlineguardian
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: ALHOFF177A17]
    #617958 - 04/25/02 02:47 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

IMHO I am not sure if potency is a good indicator on the kind of trip you will have. I think it comes down to how much magic the mushroom wants to show us.


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Offlinekhufu
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: guardian]
    #618906 - 04/26/02 12:54 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

AL}{OFF177A17 - Dude that is a very good point!!! If blueing is a sign of oxidation, H2O2 should instantly blue the hell out of mycelium.


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Offlinekhufu
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: guardian]
    #618907 - 04/26/02 12:54 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

AL}{OFF177A17 - Dude that is a very good point!!! If blueing is a sign of oxidation, H2O2 should instantly blue the hell out of mycelium.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: khufu]
    #619413 - 04/26/02 02:26 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

hmmm..If psilocin really IS that strong of a reducing agent, wouldnt it be possible to subject various strains of mycelia to near-leathal h2o2 concentrations in order to select for the highst alkaloid producer, theoretically?


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Edited by Catalysis (05/01/02 01:52 PM)


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Invisiblepsyphon
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: Catalysis]
    #621888 - 04/29/02 02:33 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

That is a great question! I'm *bump*ing this because I'd like to know the answer too. Anyone know?

Thanks


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Offlinebaraka
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: psyphon]
    #623129 - 04/30/02 01:04 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Well, i know this if it matters. Mexicube fruits do not stain much at all and are below average cubie potency but still a good strain. Wierd thing is the mexicube cakes bruise like insanity. Usually at the end of the 1st flush most of the cakes have blue spots on them. And if you bruise the cake slightly, it goes dark blue.

TC on the other hand... the fruits bruise a nice deep blue and are above average in potency. The cakes on the other hand do not bruise 1/4 the amount mexicube cakes fruiting next to them all the same conditions....



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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: baraka]
    #624008 - 05/01/02 01:50 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Interesting, maybe the difference in staining is due to a lower psilocin concentration in the shroom than in the mycelium.  Perhaps the psilocin somehow metabolized to psilocybin in the shroom at a faster rate in that strain.  Im not really sure.

I would like to hear some info on the mechanism of blue-staining in cubes if anyone knows. thanks. :smile:     


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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #624158 - 05/01/02 05:36 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

the bluing reaction is oxidation of indole alkaloids, not specifically a reaction of psilocin oxidation. With the wide array of indoles in different species this can be a factor in the different hues of bluing. It is commonly thought that psilocin is what causes the bluing in cubensis, however because they contain relatively few other indoles that are as unstable as psilocin.

I don't think bluing can be a gauge of potency on exactly those levels. IMHO cambodians are very potent, when fresh, but when dried they are weak to all levels. They also blue very quickly when fresh. On the other hand, Ecuadors blue very little in comparison when fresh, but when dried they blow away just about every other mushroom I've tried in the same state. So as far as my hypothesis is concerned, extreme bluing is a sign of high fresh psilocin content, but can not be an indicator of dried potency or even overall potency, because psilocybin just plain dont oxidise as easily.


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Offlinebaraka
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
    #624383 - 05/01/02 11:05 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

ahh this is very interesting!


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
    #624598 - 05/02/02 04:48 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

yeah - ive noticed that B+ doesnt staing very blue and keeps its potency when dried compared to other cubensis that do stain very blue.
I found PES Amazonians and PRs to stain the bluest the quickest, followed by tassmanians, eqs and TCs


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Offlinebaraka
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #624853 - 05/02/02 01:54 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Someone just dried some EQ shrooms. (fan for 12 hours then in the dessication station). The cap has a blue tint and the stem under the cap has blue stain but most of the stems are not blue. (small greenish tint where they where picked from). I think maybe the wind did some brusings of the cap???


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Offlinefungulus
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: baraka]
    #1981963 - 10/05/03 08:04 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You can tell strains apart from secondary colors in the blueing, like green, purple and black, but the best way I know of guaging potency is munch, munch, munch...


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Offlinefloridaboi101
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Re: bluestaining in cubensis - potency?? [Re: fungulus]
    #1982082 - 10/05/03 08:59 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

damn ive noticed a trend in diggin up oldies today... :grin:


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